From how far away can you hit someone with an evocation?

[exploding_brain]

Fists and melee weapons are limited to opponents in your zone.  Thrown weapons can go into the next zone.  Guns can go two zones, maybe three if it's a rifle.  It seems like most single target evocation attacks should be similar to thrown weapon range at least, if not handgun range, but I can't find any rules text that says for sure.

Assuming your standard evocation can attack opponents in an adjacent zone (like a thrown weapon), a follow up question would be; can you spend shifts to hit someone farther away (arcane snipe rifle)?  Can you get some small bonus to your evocation (probably not a full shift) if you limit it just you zone (arcane brass knuckles)?

[Deadmanwalking]

I believe Evocation is line of sight, and thus as many zones range as that allows for.

[exploding_brain]

Right, duh.  I read that like 50 times, but it never clicked that meant ignore zones, if you can see it, you can hit it.

[Biff Dyskolos]

I believe Evocation is line of sight, and thus as many zones range as that allows for.

Do telescopes and lenses extend your line of sight?

Sounds like a cheat. So I'd rule that you can't target a spell through lenses even if it is still line of sight. But then what about the poor Wizard who wears glasses?

[Deadmanwalking]

Do telescopes and lenses extend your line of sight?

Sounds like a cheat. So I'd rule that you can't target a spell through lenses even if it is still line of sight. But then what about the poor Wizard who wears glasses?

Sure, why not? Anything technological is a no (because of how magic interacts with that stuff), but a telescope should work fine. Hell, I can see a Wizard with a telescope as a Focus item and a specialty in sniping Red Court with lances of fire from a mile away. Think "Quigley Down Under" with magic. 

How and why would that concept need to be disallowed?

[Biff Dyskolos]

I can see a Wizard with a telescope as a Focus item and a specialty in sniping Red Court...

That must be why Ebenezer asked Harry where the telescope was!   

[Biff Dyskolos]

Hmm...

After thinking about lenses I started thinking about mirrors. Is it line of sight or direct line of sight. After a quick search I couldn't find the answer; but I did find this,

Also, magical energy can only travel a certain distance before you need a more permanent construct to direct it accurately, and that’s the kind of thing you need thaumaturgy for.

There seems to be an unspecified range to evocation. So a telescopic sniper evocater may not be possible. Damn!

[exploding_brain]

The cool stories of setting up the proper sniper shot are more like thaumaturgy anyway.  I could see performing a ritual that assists the conduction of energy from one point (the sniper's nest), to another point (the predicted location of the target).  Then when the hit goes down, you actually cast the evocation, with the assist of the results of the ritual.

Or look at the phobo-phage redirection ritual.  That certainly had the same feel in the book as a sniper setting up a kill shot.

[neko128]

The Shadowrun answer to this is that range of magic is infinite, as long as you see the original image.  Therefore, telescopes, microscopes, optic lenses, even fibre optic cables are fine, as long as the image is purely "analog" optical and never digitized; but any kind of computerized or video system breaks the link.

The real bitch of this is that it directly leads to the idea of a security setup where a mage sits in a room somewhere in the building, with an optical (not digital) switch that links a pair of goggles or magnifying screen to fibre-optic cables running to fisheye lenses in the ceiling of every room in the building.  So when a security guard watching his motion detectors or video banks notices movement, he tells the wizard what room it's in, and the wizard switches the goggles to that lense, and *poof* they're targetable.  Cunning PCs will abuse this heartily.

[Moriden]

The real bitch of this is that it directly leads to the idea of a security setup where a mage sits in a room somewhere in the building, with an optical (not digital) switch that links a pair of goggles or magnifying screen to fibre-optic cables running to fisheye lenses in the ceiling of every room in the building.  So when a security guard watching his motion detectors or video banks notices movement, he tells the wizard what room it's in, and the wizard switches the goggles to that lense, and *poof* they're targetable.  Cunning PCs will abuse this heartily.

Sounds like a sanctum attunement ritual to me. id use more magical theory and less tech but the intent seems the same.

[Ard3]

Cunning PCs will abuse this heartily.

IIRC it is harder than direct line of sight, but doable. Also it works both ways and simple piece of gum/tape/whatever will stop wizard from casting.
If you know beforehand where the optical cables are, you can just levitate spray paint bottle next to it.
Not really practical system really.


And yes, I have played Shadowrun 

[Deadmanwalking]

The real bitch of this is that it directly leads to the idea of a security setup where a mage sits in a room somewhere in the building, with an optical (not digital) switch that links a pair of goggles or magnifying screen to fibre-optic cables running to fisheye lenses in the ceiling of every room in the building.  So when a security guard watching his motion detectors or video banks notices movement, he tells the wizard what room it's in, and the wizard switches the goggles to that lense, and *poof* they're targetable.  Cunning PCs will abuse this heartily.

This doesn't work in the Dresden Files for the good and simple reason that magic fucks technology the hell up. So, he'd need to do it with magic...which is easier said than done.

Personally, I wouldn't allow it if the image comes from anything more complex than a non-electric microscope, for that very reason.

[exploding_brain]

So having established that the potential distance of the attack is one of the advantages of evocation, what kind of benefit might one grant for sacrificing that benefit.

Let's look at a wizard who wants to make some arcane brass knuckles as one of his rotes.  It's a single target attack, much like Harry's Fuego spell, but you can only attack someone in the same zone with you.  Normally you can't get anything for restricting an on-the-fly spell that way, because you know when you cast it if your target is close enough or not.  But for a rote, we're picking the particulars ahead of time and hoping we guess right.

Would it be reasonable to add some small bonus to our magical brass knuckles rote in exchange for reducing it's range?

[Biff Dyskolos]

Would it be reasonable to add some small bonus to our magical brass knuckles rote in exchange for reducing it's range?

Personally, I would say no. When I read about Harry's force ring in the books I always assumed that he connected with the target - making a Fist attack. I was surprised that the RPG had the force ring as a ranged attack targeted by Discipline. Other than the line of sight requirement and that vague statement on page YS:250 about range, the actual range never enters into the formula. As they has been said elsewhere, magic buys you the effect then you describe how it works. A Weapons:3 attack is the same whether it touch, short range, or long range.

[KOFFEYKID]

No, Harry definitely uses the rings at range many times throughout the series, however every once in a while he does also punch at his target, if they are in range. I think in that situation harry can use fists as a complimentary skill, getting a +1 bonus to the discipline roll to aim the effect.