At Evocation speeds and methods

[Deadmanwalking]

Which circumstances are these?

You're allowed to incur Sponsor Debt instead of Mental Stress if you desire. It's not in the current pre-release PDF, but iago has mentioned it a whole bunch of times.

Nothing explicitly references wards.  However, if you can evoke a shield made of summer fire, why not a longer ward?  Or create lasting plant growth (with super thorns) to do it?  The domains of sponsored magic are more thematic than strictly mechanical categories.

Because that's blatantly against the rules. What Evocation and Thaumaturgy effects Sponsored Magic can access are thematic and unspecified, but what Thaumaturgy effects can be used as Evocation are clearly stated, as are what creatures take additional damage. Saying you can use Warding with Seelie Magic is like saying you can suddenly use Biomancy with Unseelie Magic, or that Kemmlerian Necromancy suddenly reduces all vampires defensive abilities by one level...it just doesn't work that way, and is as much of a rules breach as suddenly having a new Evocation element for no reason.

[KOFFEYKID]

"Like" does not mean "exactly the same as", also, it goes on to tell you exactly "Like" an evocation it is, and what changes must be made to the casting process.

Maroon is like red, only darker.

Nothing explicitly references wards.  However, if you can evoke a shield made of summer fire, why not a longer ward?  Or create lasting plant growth (with super thorns) to do it?  The domains of sponsored magic are more thematic than strictly mechanical categories.

With the power source, you get access to the listed set of thaumaturgic effects (often a thematic grouping of some sort) as a viable effect of an evocation spell. So you might be able to throw together a small ward quickly, summon a minor creature extra-quick, or cast a curse of decay with the flick of a wrist.

[Deadmanwalking]

Uh, yeah. That's in the general section. Nobody's saying that some variety of Sponsored Magic couldn't do Wards...just that none of the listed ones (except Soulfire) can.

[Korwin]

Btw. Soulfire.
To be honest I dont like it as Sponsored Magic.
Because per the books, you use your own soul. So you would get a Dept to your Soul? How much dept do you need, to be empty of your Soul?

[KnightFerrous]

So you would get a Dept to your Soul? How much dept do you need, to be empty of your Soul?

Part of the dept Compels are your own soul, remember how harry is exhasuted after using soulfire? dept cash in. There are also personality depts (the book mentions you hunting a demon when you really should be resting as an example) and Sponsor compels (the angels come giving you a job to do)

[Archmage_Cowl]

How I rule soulfire i think is kinda cool(now watch me post it and you all take it to shreds lol) Okay so you all know how you can use sponsored magic to power up your magic by incuring debts? Well i play that when you use soulfire to make those you are actually causing consequences to your aspects(since for this game the best way to define soul is through them) At a rate of one mild consequence for every three shifts(i do three because soulfire is a little more limiting than regular consequences) of power gained. How i Rule it is it works like this...

Example one.
Soulfire User
Aspects: Chosen of God, Power of Soul, Soulfire is My Weapon.
Okay now this soulfire user hurls an attack and tosses in an extra 3 shifts of power from soulfire, this would be a mild consequence. So he looks at his aspects and says Hmm Well i dont think i will need my "Chosen of God" aspect. So he makes a mark on it. That aspect is no longer usuable for the duration of a mild consequence(one scene after its gained) that means no invokes or compels from it.

Example 2
Soulfire User
Aspects: Chosen of God, Power of Soul, Soulfire is My Weapon.
Okay so say he tosses in a huge amount of soul fire into a single attack which would be 9 shifts(a severe consequence's worth plus the 1.5x bonus for it being soulfire) Okay so he looks at his aspects and says well i almost never use my "Power of Soul" So he picks that and puts a mark on it. Now that aspect is gone like a severe consequence(so no invoke compels or anything like that) which means it could be gone for a very, very long time.

Example 3
Soulfire User
Aspects: Chosen of God, Power of Soul, Soulfire is My Weapon.
So he uses the same number of shifts as last example(9) which could be a severe consequence on one aspect. but that aspect will be gone for a quite a while(and thus he will lose lots of power) so maybe he decides instead of making it a severe on one of his aspects he divides it up into 3 different mild consequences and places them on his 3 aspects and they will only be gone for a Mild's duration.

This is just a house rule of mine and probably stupid but hey i like it. And after having played several sessions with a soulfire user i have yet to find any brokenness in it or Over Poweredness. Plus this represents how overuse can be fatal(if you sacrafice your high concept you die) Still tweaking it though. Right now one of the things im trying to decide is if your trouble counts as a sacrificable one(right now i'm ruling you cant.) Also i'm ruling that you can use whatever form of thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation you want with soulfire as long as you can justify it with your aspects.

So what you guys think? And please dont be too harsh

[Korwin]

Part of the dept Compels are your own soul, remember how harry is exhasuted after using soulfire? dept cash in.
There are also personality depts (the book mentions you hunting a demon when you really should be resting as an example)

Can see that.

and Sponsor compels (the angels come giving you a job to do)

But there is no sponsor per se.
Harry got help with the first access to Soul-Fire. But the source is only his soul.

And as is, there is no chance of using to much Soulfire. No danger of emtying your Soul.

[KOFFEYKID]

Sure there is, what if you get taken out by casting a really powerful soulfire spell?

The answer is: You used up your soul, now you DAIIE!

[Korwin]

@Archmage

First look is good. If I use it, I think I use the standard Consequense shifts...
Can one Aspect have multiple Consequenses?

Need to think a little about it...

[Archmage_Cowl]

Can one Aspect have multiple Consequenses?

I would rule nope because the part of your soul that represents that aspect is gone. The consequence you're connecting it to just represents how long it takes to grow/heal back. But thats just how ive been looking at it. I could definately see other ways being done. and thanks for the comment

[KnightFerrous]

But there is no sponsor per se.
Harry got help with the first access to Soul-Fire. But the source is only his soul.

Harry may have to buy the ammo himself but someone issued him the weapon. There is a sponsor, hence why harry can continue to use Soulfire. Ever heard the phrase "I serve at the pleasure of the president" ? this is "I burn at the pleasure of the Almighty" yes Harry is using his soul to fuel the soulfire but he only has access to it as long as the sponsor deems him worthy. If he ever does something to royally irritate said sponsor he may reach for soulfire only to find himself incapable of channeling it.

[JustinS]

So what you guys think? And please dont be too harsh

I think you've been reading my mind. I've been thinking about doing soulfire just about the same way for a few days and needing time to write it up (Yes, the same take consequences to aspects that limit them thing).

I was thinking of making you have to spend a fate point to invoke it (you need free will in action), and add the note that if you experience and True Emotion (see WCVs) you reduce a recovery time by one. Emotion is good for the soul.

[Archmage_Cowl]

I was thinking of making you have to spend a fate point to invoke it (you need free will in action), and add the note that if you experience and True Emotion (see WCVs) you reduce a recovery time by one. Emotion is good for the soul.

You my good sir are awesome. I love this idea In fact i have a session tomorrow and i'll test it out then.

[JustinS]

You my good sir are awesome. I love this idea In fact i have a session tomorrow and i'll test it out then.

The other thing I would make clear is that it only applies as a modifier to True Magic. No stacking with other sponsored styles of magic. Even an archangel would be channeling force/spirit + soulfire.