Author Topic: Can Dresden Files RPG handle an Immortal 'Highlander' style character?  (Read 21514 times)

Offline Jeckel

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Nice, I also think three sounds like a good number and I can't think of any others anyway, so that sounds like it will work out. I haven't read over the Lawbreaker stuff yet, so I won't bother making any comment on mechanics, but I'm assuming we need some kind of new name for them. 'Rulebreaker' pops to mind as an obvious option, but something a little more connected to Immortals would be cool, does anyone have any ideas?

Also, I'm planning to run a test campaign using the Immortal template over the next few months, so I'll post how it works out as the game progresses. :)
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
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Tharios

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Well, here's the first shot at the "Lawbreaker" style powers.  Still no good ideas on names yet, so I'm going with Rulebreaker as a place holder.  I'm modeling them almost directly off of the Lawbreaker powers, strictly for simplicity's sake at this time.  It's their thematic effect that's most important, not the mechanics, after all.

I'm including the Dark Quickening as both a Rulebreaker power and an effect.  Their relationship and use will be evident in the power's entry.

Also, an interpretive rundown of the nature of the rules and breaking them will be included at a later time.

Rulebreaker [-Varies]
Musts: This ability must be taken immediately upon violating one of the Rules of the Gathering.  You must specify the rule broken at the time you take this ability.  This ability must be taken separately for each rule broken - noted like so: Rulebreaker (first), Rulebreaker (third), etc.
Description: As an Immortal participating in the Gathering, you have violated one of the rules meant to restrain the impact of the Gathering on mortal society and ensure fair and impartial combat among Immortals.
- First: You have utilized ranged or area effect weapons such as guns or grenades, or you have used magic to incapacitate and/or kill another Immortal.
- Second: You have enlisted the help of one or more other beings, including non-sentient types such as beasts and ghosts, to kill another Immortal.
- Third: You have killed another Immortal on consecrated ground, or within the boundaries of a threshold augmented by true faith.
- Fourth: You have killed an Immortal that was under the influence of a Dark Quickening and did not spend the required fate point.
Skills Affected:
- First: Any.  As stunts and powers, especially magic, allow for a very wide variety of skills to potentially violate this rule.
- Second: Most social skills, as well as any skills useful in ambushing an already engaged opponent.
- Third: Conviction.
- Fourth: Any.  Whichever skill is used to deal the final blow is the one affected by this violation.
Effects:
Time's Taint: Gain a +1 to rolls involving the skill used to violate this rule each time you use the same skill in combat with another immortal to violate the specific Rule again.  Increase the bonus to +2 if you've used the same skill to break the specific Rule three or more times; additionally, the the refresh cost of this ability increases from –1 to –2 and requires that you change one of your existing aspects into a version twisted by the violation of the rule.  Every three times that you break this law past that point, another (different) aspect must be changed, though the refresh cost and skill bonus do not further increase. You cannot stack bonuses if you break multiple Rules in one battle—use the highest bonus.
Three-fold taint: Increase all skill bonuses from Rulebreaker abilities by one if you have three or more Rulebreaker abilities in any combination (i.e., if you’ve broken three or more Rules, sporting a Rulebreaker ability for each one), making the maximum possible bonus +3.
Dark Quickening: If you have three or more Rulebreaker abilities in any combination (i.e., if you’ve broken three or more Rules, sporting a Rulebreaker ability for each one), your Quickening becomes so tainted that for another Immortal to absorb it is harmful to them.  An Immortal who takes your head must either spend a fate point and suffer a ___ stress mental attack that cannot be blocked or reduced, or immediately acquire Rulebreaker (fourth) as a power and suffer the same attack.

I considered keeping the Dark Quickening as its own thing, but I think it works better by incorporating it with the Rulebreaker powers.

Any suggestions on how much stress it should inflict?  I'm thinking by the end of such a battle it should be awfully close to being enough to render an Immortal taken out after picking up some big consequences.  Granted though, I suppose by the end of that it wouldn't take much.  Under no circumstances should this ever result in something "good."  Fun maybe, but never good.

Offline Jeckel

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Well, here's the first shot at the "Lawbreaker" style powers.

Wow, for a first shot I think you hit the mark. 8)

I have a question though. Does the order of the rules matter? If it doesn't then I would suggest making holy ground the first rule. It seems to be the most metaphysical of the rules and canonly it seems to be the most important.

I especially like the way you worked Dark Quickening in such a straight forward way. Would a Light Quickening have any mechanical effect or warrant mention in the text?

As for the stress inflicted by the Dark Quickening. If the stress can not be blocked or reduced then couldn't you just cut out the middle-man and directly assign an appropriate consequence(s)? If that isn't mechanically sound, or is just plain crazy talk, then I can't really say a stress number, but maybe some kind of contested roll between the victim and attacker to determine the amount of stress might be a good way to handle it.

-------------------------------------------

I also got a few things done.

I renamed the Immortal power to Immortal Nature as it can get ambiguous when the power and template are both being discussed in the same block of text and always appending the words 'template' or 'power' isn't very practical. Any ideas for alternative names are welcome.

Did some rewording on the now Immortal Nature power. Mainly I combined ryanroyce's original version and Tharios's latest version. Best of both worlds and all that.

In order to run the test campaign I mentioned in my previous post, I needed a simi-finalized version to use, and seeing as the mechanics of the template and power are pretty stable (I've also made it clear that breaking the rules are outside this test game) I think it will work for now. Should better wordings, additional powers such as the Rulebreakers, or new stunts come along it can be further updated at that point.

Lastly, because of the mentioned test game and core stability, I have put the content in their own web-pages at the links below.

Immortal Template
Immortal Nature Power
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 06:15:03 AM by Jeckel »
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Tharios

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Wow, for a first shot I think you hit the mark. 8)

I have a question though. Does the order of the rules matter? If it doesn't then I would suggest making holy ground the first rule. It seems to be the most metaphysical of the rules and canonly it seems to be the most important.

I especially like the way you worked Dark Quickening in such a straight forward way. Would a Light Quickening have any mechanical effect or warrant mention in the text?
They're sort of in a specific order...a reversed order of severity.  Which, was actually accidental.  lol  I hadn't intended any order at all, only that the Dark Quickening should be the final one in the list, owing to the fact the others have to be committed before you develop one.  I guess then that I decided to just build up to the worst from the least.  If you'd rather rearrange them, go right ahead, it doesn't actually matter to me.  Like I said, it was mostly unintentional.

Generally, unless you chop Quickening out of the Immortal Nature power, there's no reason to make a more specific distinction between the two.  Even then, there's no real need to further distinguish them.  Perhaps add to the Dark Quickening effect, "For purposes of gaining a milestone, this effect otherwise functions as normal Quickening."  Since obviously if it COSTS a fate point to avoid getting the Rulebreaker power of the same name, you can't EARN a fate point for it instead.  However, another line might be helpful, "If the victor chooses to acquire the Rulebreaker (fourth) power, they gain a fate point as with the normal Quickening rules as well."  It ends up being exactly like accepting or buying out of a compel.  The only real difference between a normal or dark quickenings is the potential for being harmed or "marked" by the dark and that you can't buy out of a normal one...because, why would you really want to?

That all makes the whole thing a much less certain proposition.  It could be a good idea, or just plain necessary NOT to spend that fate point even though it'll darken your soul a little.

One other thing that occurred to me.  Considering how the game is already set up to deal with it, perhaps both types of Quickening can lay down a blanket hex on all devices within a few zones.  The "lightning" is mostly a visual effect, but what it does to the surroundings seems a lot like a big-league wizard turning loose an uber-hex on a big area.  Maybe add the following line to both, "Each piece of technology within 2 - 4 zones is affected as if by a 3 shift hex."

If you do decide to split the Quickening from from Immortal Nature, it won't actually take much to do so.  Just remove the whole section from the power and use exactly that entry for the Quickening stand alone power.  Then adjust costs as needed.  Admittedly, the list of things Immortals can do will look a little sparse compared to other characters, which kinda sucks because let's face it...we all like to see a nice pretty list of kick-ass on our character sheets...just a little.  lol

Offline Jeckel

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Thanx for the answer about the order. I've been learning the mechanics of the game as the need arises, and since my players and I have agreed that the books sufficiently covered wizards, we want to try the other parts of the universe. As a result, wizards and their related material are my weakest point in the rules.


I see a lot of good ideas in the rest of what you said for things to add to a Quickening power and will put them on the list of possibles. But, for now I think normal and Dark Quickenings are enough and we can leave Light and Double Quickenings unmentioned.
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Tharios

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I've got a lot of work to do for school, so I won't be offering much in the way of revisions or new items.  I don't know how long that will be the case, but I don't expect to being doing much else very often.

If I can, I'll offer up whatever happens to occur to me over time.

Good luck.

Offline Jeckel

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I've got a lot of work to do for school...

No worries mate. I've been out of school for a decade and am now going back in August, so I know how it is. Your work to this point has be wonderful and totally appreciated. :)
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Offline Jeckel

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I considered keeping the Dark Quickening as its own thing, but I think it works better by incorporating it with the Rulebreaker powers.

Any suggestions on how much stress it should inflict?

I'm working on the Rulebreaker power and I think it is about done, besides some extra fluff info about the Rules of the Gathering. The one part left to finish though is the "___" part of the Dark Quickening effect. After reading through the Lawbreaker stuff and doing a search on the word 'stress' in the pdf, I came up with a few ideas.

I think 4 stress would be acceptable. It might take the character out, but they will come back and any consequences would heal quickly enough.

An option that popped to mind. The beheaded Immortal's Discipline could be used to roll an attack, the surviving Immortal also using Discipline to defend, and the stress/consequences would work themselves out according to the normal rules.

Either of those sound like acceptable solutions?

For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Offline Jeckel

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Since I heard it mentioned else-thread, let it be know that this thread is Immortal. So fear not, raising it from the depths of the nether-pages requires not an ounce of necromatic power. I'm a slow poster, so a thread falling to page two or three doesn't mean much to me. Heck, if I have something to say, I'll happily pull a thread back to life from the bowels of the fabled last page. ;)

Either of those sound like acceptable solutions?

If there are no opinions either way or suggestions of how else to handle it, I'm going to default to something like:

Dark Quickening: If you have three or more Rulebreaker abilities in any combination (i.e., if you’ve broken three or more Rules, sporting a Rulebreaker ability for each one), your Quickening becomes so tainted that for another Immortal to absorb it is harmful to them. When an Immortal takes your head, roll your Discipline to make a mental attack that cannot be blocked or reduced. The Immortal victor must also spend a fate point or immediately acquire Rulebreaker (fourth) as a power.



For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

FutureGameDesigner

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Since I heard it mentioned else-thread, let it be know that this thread is Immortal. So fear not, raising it from the depths of the nether-pages requires not an ounce of necromatic power. I'm a slow poster, so a thread falling to page two or three doesn't mean much to me. Heck, if I have something to say, I'll happily pull a thread back to life from the bowels of the fabled last page. ;)

If there are no opinions either way or suggestions of how else to handle it, I'm going to default to something like:

Dark Quickening: If you have three or more Rulebreaker abilities in any combination (i.e., if you’ve broken three or more Rules, sporting a Rulebreaker ability for each one), your Quickening becomes so tainted that for another Immortal to absorb it is harmful to them. When an Immortal takes your head, roll your Discipline to make a mental attack that cannot be blocked or reduced. The Immortal victor must also spend a fate point or immediately acquire Rulebreaker (fourth) as a power.
You looked at my Soul Reaper thread, I'm so happy!  lol

The only question on that power that I'd have is...what's the stress of the attack?  Is it the shifts of the dice, or what?  Is it the number of the skill's level plus shifts, like fair being 4, I think?  Just confused is all, otherwise sounds perfectly fine to me.

You and Tharios have seemed to put together a lot of awesome ideas for immortals, I'd be thrilled to have you make some suggestions on my own project.

Offline Jeckel

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Heh, put the words 'Soul' and 'Reaper' in a tread title and I'm sure to happen through at some point. ;)

Good point about the amount of stress. Heading to bed now, will think about it tomorrow and post a rewording when I get home. Off the top of my head, and in need of sleep mind you, I think the part about "cannot be blocked or reduced" should be changed so it is a normal mental attack of Discipline vs. Discipline with the shifts of stress being decided normally. Is Discipline even the skill that should be used to make a mental attack? I think about it tomorrow and do some research in the book, but any suggestions or ideas are welcome, mental combat is still kinda outside my experience.

Thanx, I'm glad you like what we've put together, I know I'm going to use the crap out of this template and I hope others enjoy it as much. :)
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Offline Jeckel

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Ok, did some looking in the book and decided to make it a normal mental attack using Discipline to attack and defend. That seems to be the simplest way, stress and consequences being handled like any other attack, and doesn't require any new rules.

Dark Quickening: If you have three or more Rulebreaker abilities in any combination (i.e., if you've broken three or more Rules, sporting a Rulebreaker ability for each one), your Quickening becomes so tainted that for another Immortal to absorb it is harmful to them. When an Immortal takes your head, roll your Discipline skill as a mental attack that the victor may defend with his own Discipline. The Immortal victor must also spend a fate point or immediately acquire Rulebreaker (fourth) as a power.
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Offline Jeckel

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Alright, I've taken the silence as an affirmative to the acceptability of what I've posted and have proceeded accordingly... *takes deep breaths* that many big words..  :D

Anyway, I updated the Template and added a page for Rulebreaker. Immortal Nature link is listed again for completeness. Unless any major issues have been missed and pop up in the future, I'm considering this the final version, excluding some possible rewording of non-mechanical text.

Immortal Template
Immortal Nature Power
Rulebreaker Power

If anyone gets creative and wants to put some text together that breaks down the Rules of the Game, similar to the part of the book discussing the Laws of Magic, that would be awesome and make a good addition to what we got. But I hope people find this stuff as fun to play as one of my players currently does. :)
For evil to conquer, good men need only do nothing.
War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
When Scientists ask questions, Engineers build answers.

Offline swordsman

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But I hope people find this stuff as fun to play as one of my players currently does. :)

Yep... some of us are still lurking this thread. Thanks for the effort.

Offline halfer92

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To be honest, I don't think the Quickening would be a big deal unless the beheaded in question had some kind of special power or stunt. You would just find yourself with the knowledge of a centuries old swordsman, which by definition, you already are. Maybe after experiencing the Quickening two or three times you could get some kind of ability, but that should be up to the GM.