A gauge for Supernatural Sense

[Biff Dyskolos]

I would be interested in hearing how other people are using the Supernatural Sense power. Specifically, how do you gauge the power difference between Strange Sense [-1], Strange Senses [-2] and Broad Senses [-3].

[KnightFerrous]

I had one idea for an Emissary of Santa who had the supernatural sense of smell. People smelled like Freshly baked cookies if they were generally good, or smelled like coal if they were generally bad.

[Rel Fexive]

I think it's what I would use for my old idea of a cop who can do the whole "tracking spell" thing without a spell or circle.  All he needs is to touch (for a given amount of time) something associated with the person he is looking for - a personal item, their blood, the murder weapon they used (in the sense that the act imprints their "aura" on the weapon), that kind of thing.  Then he gets a vague impression of direction and distance.  It's just that I can't see any other power for it that isn't spell-casting.

As an aside, Supernatural Sense seems to be the right power to give

(click to show/hide)

Agent Tilly

in Changes, too.

[Biff Dyskolos]

I think it's what I would use for my old idea of a cop who can do the whole "tracking spell" thing without a spell or circle.

This sounds the same as He Who Walks Behind...

Supernatural Sense (Senses) [–2] May “impossibly” track its prey, assuming it has access to a fresh ritual component from its target—fresh blood or hair, its True Name, etc…

The above quote is one of the reasons I am having problems differentiating between the three power levels of Supernatural Sense (Strange Sense [-1], Strange Senses [-2], Broad Senses [-3]). The description for He Who Walks Behind seems to fit the text for Strange Sense [-1]...

In situations where you might be penalized or otherwise told that it’s impossible to sense something, you can nevertheless attempt to sense the thing you’ve defined, without penalty.

Normally, tracking someone like this would be impossible, right? However, this power's cost is the same as Supernatural Sense (Senses) [–2]; but it does not fit the description...

You may instead define a small set of up to three thematically related supernatural senses.

The text for Supernatural Senses seems a bit vague to me and the few examples seem to add confusion to the vagueness.

Me, confused. Help!?

[Moriden]

You may instead define a small set of up to three thematically related supernatural senses.

The text for Supernatural Senses seems a bit vague to me and the few examples seem to add confusion to the vagueness.

no idea if this helps or not, but some thing ive toyed with for this are being able to smell virgins/innocent people [purity], see deception like smoke curling of of someone[impurity]. and  identify truly corrupt individuals by feeling a strange kinship with them. those are some that i was tinkering with for a demon npc. but i figured it might work as an example. the thematically related element is that there all tied to purity/impurity of the target and are three separate sense essentially smell sight and touch respectively.

[Biff Dyskolos]

no idea if this helps or not, but some thing ive toyed with for this are being able to smell virgins/innocent people [purity], see deception like smoke curling of of someone[impurity]. and  identify truly corrupt individuals by feeling a strange kinship with them. those are some that i was tinkering with for a demon npc. but i figured it might work as an example. the thematically related element is that there all tied to purity/impurity of the target and are three separate sense essentially smell sight and touch respectively.

I like the purity theme. It could be useful for demonic characters, identifying food, or good characters, identifying who needs to be saved.

So, I think you are saying that this is Strange Senses [-2] because it's a small group of senses related by a theme. The first two examples, smell and sight, are physical senses - using Alertness and Investigation? The third example, "feel", is a mystical sense - using Lore?

If my assumptions are correct then consider this:

Strange Sense [-1] can "feel" the degree of purity/corruption in a person (uses Lore)

In your campaign is the difference between virginal/pure people, impure people, and corrupt people a significant difference? Otherwise, in game terms, both of these would seem to achieve the same effect. It seems like you are paying one extra refresh to add some colour to the description. Also, you have chosen to spread your senses over three different skills rather than concentrated in one skill.

[Moriden]

i would call it
"Strange Senses [–1]. You may instead define a small set of up to three thematically related
supernatural senses."
 yes.

Im unclear if you need to buy supernatural sense to take strange senses, and im inclined to say no, but i believe many of the one point powers aren't worth the cost.

The first two examples, smell and sight, are physical senses - using Alertness and Investigation? The third example, "feel", is a mystical sense - using Lore?

I view the power as essentially giving you new ways that you can use existing senses. as opposed to supernatural senses which gives you an entirely new sense. the description in the book both supports and damages this theory but that's my working interpretation. so as to which skill youd use with each sense? im not really sure it matters. do you use alertness or investigation to spot something? whicever makes the most sense at the time. same for these new uses of your senses.

In your campaign is the difference between virginal/pure people, impure people, and corrupt people a significant difference? Otherwise, in game terms, both of these would seem to achieve the same effect. It seems like you are paying one extra refresh to add some colour to the description. Also, you have chosen to spread your senses over three different skills rather than concentrated in one skill.

its more that, supernatural senses gives you one new sense ability or unnatural bonus, strange senses gives you three that are all tied into a specific theme, so in this case its that you can sense a person purity and some of the things that affect it. when a person lies they are intentionaly defiling themselves and as such you see some of there purity boil away in a smoke like fashion. you can smell people who are high in purity[ either they smell repellent cause innocence is icky, or they smell appetizing cause.. yum!} and you "feel" comfortable around those with little to no innocence like you would around a close friend or lover.

As to how important the distinction is, that really depend son who/what the pcs are, if your playing fallen angels, demons, and or angels it definitly couldbe, but no i dont think its worth 2 refresh, i think it should cost one.


so if i was the gm it would be

Strange Sense [-1], Strange Senses [-2], Broad Senses [-3])

Strange Sense [-1], one specific thing you couldnt normally do.
Strange Senses [-1], 3 things you could do if such a thing where possible tied to a theme/ sense one thing 3 different ways
Broad Senses [-2])  other wackiness.

[iago]

i would call it
"Strange Senses [–1]. You may instead define a small set of up to three thematically related
supernatural senses."
 yes.

Im unclear if you need to buy supernatural sense to take strange senses, and im inclined to say no, but i believe many of the one point powers aren't worth the cost.

Of course you must. It's listed as an upgrade under Supernatural Sense, not as its own power.

[Biff Dyskolos]

Im unclear if you need to buy supernatural sense to take strange senses

I think they could have made this clearer in the text; but I believe that you buy Supernatural Senses [-1]. For that you get what is described under Strange Sense. Then you can upgrade this to Strange Senses for an additional [-1] or Broad Senses for an additional [-2]. This gives you three power levels.

Supernatural Senses [-1]
Supernatural Senses (Senses) [-2]
Supernatural Senses (Broad) [-3]

I am reasoning this by extension from the Library Ghost example. If you look at the Spirit Form [-3] power, it lists the option Poltergeist [-2] and in Our Story the Library Ghost is Spirit Form (Poltergeist) [–5]. Also, if you look at Swift Transition [-2] which has the option No Mortal Home [+1] and the Library Ghost is Swift Transition (No Mortal Home) [–1].

There are other such examples involving Claws, Domination, Human Form, and Incite Emotion.

They are a little inconsistent in how they write up the examples in Our Story for characters with Supernatural Senses. But based on the refresh cost, all of them seem to have Supernatural Senses (Senses) [-2] except Maeve who is written up as Supernatural Senses (Strange Senses) [-1].

In my opinion all the Supernatural Senses material just confuses the issue.

[iago]

I think they could have made this clearer in the text

We did. Quoting YS159:

Some of a power’s effects may be upgrades and will be noted with their own cost, which should be applied to the base cost of the power if the upgrade is taken. For example, the Spirit Form [–3] power has Poltergeist [–2] listed as one of its effects. This is an upgrade; if you take Spirit Form together with the Poltergeist upgrade, the total cost to your refresh will be -5.

[Moriden]

good to know thats how it works. im going to stick to my version for any games i run though, theres just no way i could justify the cost otherwise, same way in my games claws, and emotional vampire are -0 powers.

[Biff Dyskolos]

We did. Quoting YS159:

Sorry, I was not being clear as to what I was talking about. As you point out the Upgrades issue is made clear in the text. And the example for Library Ghost (and others) have a clear syntax for indicating the Power, the upgrade and the total refresh costs. These things are all good.

What is not good, specifically, are the examples involving Supernatural Senses. The terminology/syntax is all over the place. The only reliable guide as to which upgrade you are looking at is the refresh cost and even this fails for Maeve who is listed as Supernatural Senses (Strange Senses)[–1]. This should probably read Supernatural Senses (Strange Sense) [–1] or Supernatural Senses (Strange Senses)[–2]

All of the other examples are [-2] refresh so they should all be Strange Senses. As I pointed out above the description of He Who Walks Behind sound more like Strange Sense [-1]; there is no multiple senses with a theme that would justify the [-2] refresh.

That is why I am trying to find out what other people are doing with this power. Because I am finding the whole thing very confusing.