Laws of Magic and other supernaturals

[Madmacabre]

If I understand correctly, the laws of magic only have jurisdiction on wizards (of any types). What about the other supernatural types. Do they have certain types of laws managing their magic?

Can Changeling, who use the sponsored seelie magic for example, mind control (charm) anyone without raising issues with the white counsel?

[luminos]

The White Council polices magic used by all humans, which means they will execute a changeling for breaking the laws.

[Moriden]

Can Changeling, who use the sponsored seelie magic for example, mind control (charm) anyone without raising issues with the white counsel?

i believe the distinction is that non human magic user's magic is an extension of who they are.. whereas humans are channeling something that is not an integral part of who and what they are.so when they use certain types of magic it "taints them" making them more inclined to use that kind of magic again, and just a little bit less "human".

That being said, thats only going to protect a fae or whatever from the metaphysical side of the laws. if a warden can punish someone for breaking a law they probably will. weather or not a changeling has protection from the council really depends on how much there fae relatives like them.

[Deadmanwalking]

Depends on who you ask. I'd say no, they get Lawbreaker. They're human and using magic in that way twists them like anyone else. Now, if they become fully Fae, that's another matter entirely, but since they're already an NPC by that point, it doesn't help PCs that much.

[Ihadris]

Arn't changelings tied to the court that their parents came from? If so the White Council wouldnt be able to do anything because of the Accords.

[Jaroslav]

I'm pretty sure Changelings are included under their parent's court until such time as they make their choice. Like how white council apprentices and white court virgins are considered part of their respective organizations, even though they aren't full members.

[Llayne]

Just as a side note, can the Fae charm with their magic? It sounds like something fae would do, but the descriptions of Seelie and Unseelie magic are very vague, and aside from mentioning biomancy and entropomancy for Summer and Winter... it doesn't give much guidance.

[Deadmanwalking]

That's because they're thematic. I'd say they can both definitely reduce or remove inhibitions (a wildness effect), but looking at them, I don't think they can do direct mind control. Which explains their reliance on Glamour for effects of that nature.

[Llayne]

I have to assume that it allows one to cross back and forth into the Nevernever. The write ups for the Summer/Winter Ladies don't have world-walker or swift transition, and they clearly have that ability in the books.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't. Travel to the Nevernever is also definitely within the scope of wildness, IMO.

[PirateJack]

Mab has already proven that mind manipulation is possible in Turn Coat, so I don't see why she wouldn't be able to outright control a person if she wanted to. Of course her main reason for using human proxies is to take advantage of their free will so mind control is probably one of her least used magicks against humans, but that's a matter of nature rather than ability.

[Deadmanwalking]

Mab having something does not necessarily imply that lesser creatures of Winter have the same. Still, you may have a point...though she did memory erasure not full on mind control, that might be thematically close enough to death and/or slumber to be available to Unseelie Magic.

[Buscadera]

I would say no. The White Council only has reign over mortal/human practitioners of magic. I seem to recall Harry not liking when White Court vampires feed in front of him, but he doesn't try to destroy them. Their inducement of lust is mind control by most standards, but the Council has no grounds to stop them.

By the same token, changelings with magic are using Fae magic, not mortal magic. The wardens might step in if they were attacking humans, but that would only be to save mortals, not to enforce the laws.

[Deadmanwalking]

Oh, absolutely. But we're mostly arguing gaining Lawbreaker stunts here, not the Wardens enforcing things. And there's a section on p. 241 that specifically deals with why the White Court don't get Lawbreaker. It's rationale (any such costs are accounted for in the cost of the Stunt) doesn't apply to Seelie or Unseelie Magic, since humans can clearly get those and break the Laws with them.

[PirateJack]

Mab having something does not necessarily imply that lesser creatures of Winter have the same. Still, you may have a point...though she did memory erasure not full on mind control, that might be thematically close enough to death and/or slumber to be available to Unseelie Magic.

Mind control is basically putting the victim's consciousness into a sort of slumber so that the Wizard/Fae/etc. takes over their body and mind.