How to Summon and Bind an Demon

[Biff Dyskolos]

Why? Why should a bigger, stronger, but weaker willed demon be harder to bind than an imp of enormous will? According to the books, it's pure willpower, why change that?

Sorry, I meant bit as a reply to you suggestion:

Personally, I'd make that alot harder to find the higher the Demon's Refresh, since it's got more power and resources to suppress that sort of thing if it wants. And the -20 Refresh ones who want to be summoned and bound? Not a good idea to summon one of those.

Adding the Refresh Cost to the Complexity would model the "harder to find" thing.

[Deadmanwalking]

Sorry, I meant bit as a reply to you suggestion:

Adding the Refresh Cost to the Complexity would model the "harder to find" thing.

Ah, understood.

Honestly, that feels unnecessary to me. The name's only one detail (and thus +2 Complexity) anyway. No, the point is that, to get a Greater Demon's name you need to go on an adventure, a quest of sorts, or make deals with shady people that you know will come back to haunt you. It's not about making the ritual harder, or making it take longer, it's about the consequences of your actions, and how some things require real risk, not just work.

[iago]

Yeah, I think the best, strongest suggestion here is essentially that the more powerful the demon (in terms of refresh), the harder the GM should make the research necessary to uncover its True Name (and other info about the creature as well, I imagine).

[JustinS]

Yeah, I think the best, strongest suggestion here is essentially that the more powerful the demon (in terms of refresh), the harder the GM should make the research necessary to uncover its True Name (and other info about the creature as well, I imagine).

I'm sure Chancey will be quite willing to trade names one for one. Yours for just about any demon you want...

You might also want to do enough research to make a good guess about its conviction, to make sure you can hold it. If you expected Erkel and got the ErlKing, you may have issues.

[Korwin]

Yeah, I think the best, strongest suggestion here is essentially that the more powerful the demon (in terms of refresh), the harder the GM should make the research necessary to uncover its True Name (and other info about the creature as well, I imagine).

And its finally something to use the Arcane Library for.

[Deadmanwalking]

And its finally something to use the Arcane Library for.

Well, there are always Lore based assessments, but yeah, additional library uses are good.

[Korwin]

I'm sure Chancey will be quite willing to trade names one for one. Yours for just about any demon you want...

Not shure about that, what if he where bound?
Would he need to give the information for free?

[Korwin]

Secondly, no, I don't think it should matter. Two equally strong willed demons should be equally hard to bind. Period. Now, usually, that'll equate to power somewhat, since imps are likely much lower Conviction than Major Demons.

Also, to summon a Demon you need it's True Name. Personally, I'd make that alot harder to find the higher the Demon's Refresh, since it's got more power and resources to suppress that sort of thing if it wants. And the -20 Refresh ones who want to be summoned and bound? Not a good idea to summon one of those.

It works for Demons where you need an True Name.
Magical Constructs are more problematic (and work like Summons) you could have an -30 Refresh Construct with an crap Conviction.

My solution would be (and I'm thinking for using it with Demons too) Refresh cost x 2 is the base Summoning (Constructing) Ritual.
(Containmend and Binding Ritual would be still based of Conviction)

[Deadmanwalking]

As a rule, you need to summon a spirit to possess a Construct to use it. I'd rule you need a really big, powerful, strong willed, spirit to actually animate anything with anything approaching -30 Refresh.

Now there is also the AI method...but again, I'd go with anything that potent rapidly gaining an impressive will and likely intellect.

[Korwin]

The Giant Scarecrow -25 refresh cost (in shapeshifting variant)
Conviction of Average or Fair

[Deadmanwalking]

As mentioned in another thread, I'd up that to at least Good for my games.

[Korwin]

As mentioned in another thread, I'd up that to at least Good for my games.

And makes no practical difference if the Wizard can use the save third step.

Third step is the Binding Ritual.
We have two objectives.
1. Binding the Hellhound
2. The Binding should last as long as possible (Time isnt allways available...)
We use 5 Shifts for the Binding and 5 Shifts for an extended duration.
The Hellhound cant succed against the Binding Ritual (without using Fatepoints). If he does use an Fatepoint, he is still Contained and our Wizard cast the Ritual again (which doesnt need preparation).
Lets say the Hellhound doesnt use an Fatepoint but rolls +4 with the dice. So he gets an Stressbox filled.
Our Wizard cast the Ritual again. The Dice are with the Hellhound, again +4. His second Stessbox is filled.
With the third binding Ritual he gets an mild consequence.
With the fourth binding Ritual he gets an moderate consequence.
With the fifth binding Ritual he gets an severe consequence.
With the sixth binding Ritual an exteme consequence.
With the seventh binding Ritual he gets taken out and is bound.

Thats an worst case scenario.

[Deadmanwalking]

Potentially. It depends on how you read and look at the rules. Even assuming that's the case, your new minion will then immediately need time to recover or be pretty much useless until it does. Also, see the other thread for reasons why this is usually a bad idea. Two words: Diplomatic Repercussions.

Though now that I think about it, there's also the whole 'literal genie' problem, where your new minion is ordered to protect you from the demon, and immediately kills you since then the demon can't. That's a bit of an over-the-top example, but the kind of thing that's likely to be a much bigger problem for powerful creatures than the less powerful.