Evocation: Combining Attacks and Manuvers?

[Sigma77]

Right, so a thought that someone brought up today when we were talking. Is it possible to combine an attack and a manuver? That is, say you spent two shifts on power and then three for the manuver - could it all be done with one spell? My gut feeling says yes, but I wasn't sure if that was skewing the rules or not.

The example he used:

"Say you're summoning up a gust of wind to blow some debris into a guy. It's two shifts of power, so it's a Weapon: 2 attack. But you want it to knock him off balance too, so you spend three shifts to put the temporary aspect OFF-BALANCE on the other guy. Ta-da, an attack and a manuver all in one!"

[luminos]

Nope, just like you can't combine attacks and maneuvers using other methods.  Doing so would count as taking multiple full action in one exchange.  You could house rule it though, if that's how your group wants to play it.  I'd recommend increasing the cost of the spell if you do do it that way though, or magic users could get very powerful compared to non-magic users.

[Deadmanwalking]

Actually, I seem to recall Fred saying that you could do both...but it would work like a Spray attack (Two Good effects, as opposed to one Fantastic Effect as an example), and is thus much less effective and a bad idea.

[Sigma77]

Interesting. What if you wanted to use an attack and a manuver on the same person? Go as normal? Think maybe Fred could help us out here XD?

[Deadmanwalking]

Interesting. What if you wanted to use an attack and a manuver on the same person? Go as normal? Think maybe Fred could help us out here XD?

That was actually the situation he brought up the example for (at least, unless my memory is playing tricks on me). So still two half strength Effects and very not worth it

[Sigma77]

Does anyone have the example on hand? Sort of confused by the idea.

The way you described it, I get something like this:

Character A has a Rote that does 2 Damage and places a temporary aspect on what he hits.

Let say he gets a Superb on his roll to hit. Since it's a spray attack, it would then be two fairs to place the manuver and the attack? Also, would the opponent have to roll against both or just one?

[KOFFEYKID]

How would you model something like, drawing in allot heat from the area, which causes ice to form on the ground, in order to cast a fire evocation? Harry did something similar in one of the books right?

[KnightFerrous]

How would you model something like, drawing in allot heat from the area, which causes ice to form on the ground, in order to cast a fire evocation? Harry did something similar in one of the books right?

Harry used Fire evocation do to a maneuver placing the aspect "bridge of ice" on the scene. He channeled the fire straight up and drew the heat from the water. it was White Knight

[KOFFEYKID]

Yes, however only channeled the fire up because there was so much heat energy that releasing it near the boat would've been dangerous. Theoretically he could've lobbed it at the other boat.

Thats my point, I think in some cases it should be possible to pull a strong attack and a maneuver at the same time. Id do it by excess of how the effect of the Evocation.

Lets say I call up 6 shifts of power from the environment and I roll 10 to control. The hit lands dealing 11 Shifts of stress, more than enough to knock out my target, by a margin of 5. It should be safe to take off that 5 and apply it towards the maneuver you wanted to place (sort of like being super controlled about where you drew that energy from). Then ice forms on a whole zone, and it'll last for about 3 exchanges. Putting the aspect (Icy Footing) on that zone.

[Rel Fexive]

Yeah, the ice thing was a manoeuvre - sorry, maneuver - to create the ice.  The fire blast was just narrative colour, as in both cases (Proven Guilty and White Night) it didn't do anything except justify the creation of the ice.  Creating the ice and zapping someone with the blast is a different story.

[citadel97501]

I would think that if you wanted to do both, you would need to split the power & control up enough to complete both effects and most likely this would be incredibly hard to do, but I can come up with a couple right off the top of my head. 

In keeping with the ice methods already mentioned.

Name or Chant: Ghiaccio Coprire
Element: Water
Power: 8, 2 weapon, 3 for the Maneuver, 2 to effect the entire zone.
Control: 8, Needed for the attack roll. 

Effect:
This spell creates ice over an entire area, making it grow up around everyones feet in the area, causing damage as it freezes the flesh it contacts.  Targets exposed to the spell, need to make an athletics check at a difficulty of 3 or have the aspect of Bound in Place put on them. 

[Deadmanwalking]

Thou hast broken the Fifth Law! Necromancy, I say!

That said, yeah, that's basically what one would look like. Though I'd argue that making someone unable to move should probably be a Block.