Evocation: Control is better than Power

[JustinS]

If it really bugs you, you could house rule that any evocation that is successfully controlled and uses Power -2 or less doesn't generate stress, provided you still have stress boxes available on your track.

Up side -> more minor spells, and your casters keep going for a bit longer.
Down side -> it's a bit fiddly

I was thinking of letting spin on a control roll (success by 3) be used to reduce stress by 1 instead of applying a bonus to future actions. If you are willing to do a rote of -3 what you can normally control, you can toss around piddly spells for a long time...

[SaintAndSinner]

I was thinking of letting spin on a control roll (success by 3) be used to reduce stress by 1 instead of applying a bonus to future actions. If you are willing to do a rote of -3 what you can normally control, you can toss around piddly spells for a long time...

Nice!  I really like that idea.  Thanks   

[JustinS]

Nice!  I really like that idea.  Thanks   

It takes advantage of the existing spin idea, and makes it so really, most of the time, if you are not willing to put your own energy in, you may as well just use a gun.

[Deadmanwalking]

Yes.  Excellent point.

Fortunately, the game offers a way to vary your power vs control settings differently for attacks versus defenses: Focus items.  A caster can still favor control on attack spells by taking a Blasting Rod (or equivalent) loaded with control bonuses (instead of power or an even split), and then bolster his shield with a defensive power focus item.  So you can get the benefits of both approaches.

True, though your Maneuvers will be less than spectacular, since (like Blocks) they require shifts of Power to be effective.

[iago]

Nice idea with using spin! Spin is nice as a *tweak* as opposed to a vigorous change -- if it only ever reduces the spellcasting stress by 1, then it's a modest discount on high-power spells and a good way to cover "so low power i don't break a sweat" evocations at the lower end of power, as you note. Clever.

[Moriden]

I was thinking of letting spin on a control roll (success by 3) be used to reduce stress by 1 instead of applying a bonus to future actions. If you are willing to do a rote of -3 what you can normally control, you can toss around piddly spells for a long time...

This would get rid of one of my two biggest complaints with the system. The fact that no matter how good you are no matter how much power you have you cant get rid of that one mental stress for casting spells [other then sponsored magic] really bothers me. I personally toyed with the ideas of allowing a character to get ride of it for 5-10 extra shifts of affect, but three is probably much more reasonable. that means that a top notch caster can use base power 2 affects for a goodly while while an "average" caster can only dream of that kind of stamina.

[iago]

This would get rid of one of my two biggest complaints with the system. The fact that no matter how good you are no matter how much power you have you cant get rid of that one mental stress for casting spells [other then sponsored magic] really bothers me. I personally toyed with the ideas of allowing a character to get ride of it for 5-10 extra shifts of affect, but three is probably much more reasonable. that means that a top notch caster can use base power 2 affects for a goodly while while an "average" caster can only dream of that kind of stamina.

It does weight things in favor of the subject line of this thread being true, as opposed to working from the notion that Conviction is your "stamina" and Discipline is merely your ability to control, but if it makes things more palatable to you, great.

[SaintAndSinner]

This would get rid of one of my two biggest complaints with the system. The fact that no matter how good you are no matter how much power you have you cant get rid of that one mental stress for casting spells [other then sponsored magic] really bothers me. I personally toyed with the ideas of allowing a character to get ride of it for 5-10 extra shifts of affect, but three is probably much more reasonable. that means that a top notch caster can use base power 2 affects for a goodly while while an "average" caster can only dream of that kind of stamina.

I'm definitely going to test this out with our group soon.  I anticipate it'll be nice but not often used.  They're always trying to squeeze more power rather than less.  Might encourage a couple of maneuver attempts though...

[iago]

I'm definitely going to test this out with our group soon.  I anticipate it'll be nice but not often used.  They're always trying to squeeze more power rather than less.  Might encourage a couple of maneuver attempts though...

Yeah, good point.

[Moriden]

It does weight things in favor of the subject line of this thread being true, as opposed to working from the notion that Conviction is your "stamina" and Discipline is merely your ability to control, but if it makes things more palatable to you, great. Smiley

That's why my original idea was it would take 5-10 extra shifts to represent the greater skill and finesse it takes to channel power without damaging your mind/body. Conviction works as your base stamina in that it gives you the amount of stress boxes and consequences you can have, But then how good you are comes into play in the same way that a Olympic gymnast that may be half my weight and have half my muscle mass can do things id be lucky to do once for hours at a time.

Alternatively you could base it strait on your conviction so that if your using a spell that is, say your conviction -3, then you don't take any stress. meaning that the higher your conviction is the more powerful affects you can use before getting tired. i feel that you might want it to be closer to -4 or -5 though since you'd be adding focus item and specialization bonuses to that.

[Biff Dyskolos]

As pointed out above, Discipline may be better than Conviction for attack evocations but not for no-attack evocations. So which is better will depend upon each caster's style.

Things might be more clear-cut in the context of foci. Offensive Control is better than Offensive Power and Defencive Power is better than Defencive Control.

[Shinto_Knight]

Conviction = weapon value.

Attack with Discipline. + dice roll = to hit

Defend with resisting skill + roll = hit or miss

If it's a hit then damage = weapon value + shift difference (on to hit vs defense) - resistance (armor/toughness/etc).

i was confused by the example in the book (YS.251) because, harry got a +4 on his dicipline roll that he suplimented by invoking his aspects, and the vampire also got a +4 on his block. also under "HOW to do it" nothing is mentioned about adding the dicipline roll into the total shifts. it was confusing to me and my brain

[JustinS]

I'm definitely going to test this out with our group soon.  I anticipate it'll be nice but not often used.  They're always trying to squeeze more power rather than less.  Might encourage a couple of maneuver attempts though...

Please post how it winds up working out. I got the idea to let the game simulate wardens waiding though zombie hoards and the like, but have not tested it myself.

[iago]

i was confused by the example in the book (YS.251) because, harry got a +4 on his dicipline roll that he suplimented by invoking his aspects, and the vampire also got a +4 on his block. also under "HOW to do it" nothing is mentioned about adding the dicipline roll into the total shifts. it was confusing to me and my brain

It's a standard attack roll. Margin of success determines the base number of shifts. The shifts in the spell are all about establishing a Weapon:X value.

[SoulCatcher78]

i was confused by the example in the book (YS.251) because, harry got a +4 on his dicipline roll that he suplimented by invoking his aspects, and the vampire also got a +4 on his block. also under "HOW to do it" nothing is mentioned about adding the dicipline roll into the total shifts. it was confusing to me and my brain

8 discipline to hit - 4 dodge = 4 shifts + weapon 8 = 12 - 1 toughness =11 total

Pretty sure this is how the math works out in that example