A few spell casting questions

[Tush Hog]

I wanted to ask a few questions to make sure I've got a handle on spells. Sorry if any of this seems to obvious or somethin' 

First, concerning rote spells. If Harry were to cast his Fuego rote he does not have to roll to control the power but still rolls his Discipline (+3) with a +1 from his rod for a attack roll. Doesn't matter if roll isn't good enough to control because that has already been established. This roll is opposed by the target. If Harry got a +6 and the target got a +2, Harry's Fuego rote could do 8 shifts and it would cost him 1 box on the mental stress chart. Is this correct?

Next, the intentional hexing chart wasn't completely clear to me. It mentions the Power out beside certain levels of technology. Would you make a Discipline roll to control the power? If it is at your Conviction level or below, it doesn't cost but I assume if you reach above that costs are normal?

 

[Deadmanwalking]

First, concerning rote spells. If Harry were to cast his Fuego rote he does not have to roll to control the power but still rolls his Discipline (+3) with a +1 from his rod for a attack roll. Doesn't matter if roll isn't good enough to control because that has already been established. This roll is opposed by the target. If Harry got a +6 and the target got a +2, Harry's Fuego rote could do 8 shifts and it would cost him 1 box on the mental stress chart. Is this correct?

That is, indeed, correct.

[Deadmanwalking]

Control is established already due to it being Rote (this is the advantage of Rotes).  He still has to try to hit the target.  Damage (shifts) is dependant on the amount of power you use, so that would come from his conviction and any applicable foci rather than how good his "to hit" roll was.  Shifts are the number of steps higher on the ladder you are in comparison to the opposing roll (or difficulty).  A +6 shift on the "to hit" roll does give you options for how fancy your hit was (split it up over multiple opponents, a more accurate shot, etec).  Mental stress would be 1 for the using the Rote and +1 for any additional levels of conviction that he would want to commit to it.

Um, no. The damage of an attack is always based on how well you hit + Weapon rating. The power put into the spell determines Weapon rating, not full damage in and of itself, so if he hits by 4 shifts...he will indeed do Weapon Rating + 4 damage (since he hit them in a vulnerable area, or something like that). Splitting the attack is also impossible with a Rote, they are set in what they do, a multiple target spell would be a separate Rote. And Rotes are always the same amount of power and thus stress.

[SoulCatcher78]

First, concerning rote spells. If Harry were to cast his Fuego rote he does not have to roll to control the power but still rolls his Discipline (+3) with a +1 from his rod for a attack roll. Doesn't matter if roll isn't good enough to control because that has already been established. This roll is opposed by the target. If Harry got a +6 and the target got a +2, Harry's Fuego rote could do 8 shifts and it would cost him 1 box on the mental stress chart. Is this correct?

Yes, I was thinking it was different but DMW is right.  Check pg YS251 for the example.

[SoulCatcher78]

Um, no. The damage of an attack is always based on how well you hit + Weapon rating. The power put into the spell determines Weapon rating, not full damage in and of itself, so if he hits by 4 shifts...he will indeed do Weapon Rating + 4 damage (since he hit them in a vulnerable area, or something like that). Splitting the attack is also impossible with a Rote, they are set in what they do, a multiple target spell would be a separate Rote. And Rotes are always the same amount of power and thus stress.

I caught that error after reading your post. 

Conviction equals the amount of power and can raise the amount of stress.  The YS251 example talks about Fuego at conviction +8 which is 2 higher than his conviction bringing the total amount of stress to 3.

[Deadmanwalking]

I caught that error after reading your post. 

Conviction equals the amount of power and can raise the amount of stress.  The YS251 example talks about Fuego at conviction +8 which is 2 higher than his conviction bringing the total amount of stress to 3.

Right. Absolutely correct, but it's not a Rote any more if you do that. You'll note he needed to roll to control it, not just to hit and it's never referred to as a Rote spell. My point isn't that magic can't vary in it's cost, just that Rotes specifically can't.

The fact that Harry shouts Fuego! whether he's using a Rote or not makes this a bit mre confusing than it could be, but it's still the way things work.

[SoulCatcher78]

Yup, that seems to have been where I got it mixed up.   All Fuegos are not created equal apparently 

[Tush Hog]

Thanks for the help folks!

I'm trying to get this down. Let's say I want to use a force attack to drop a car on a bad guy  . How would that work? Would my Power that I grab need to equal the difficulty shown on the Might chart, then I make a Discipline roll to hit? What about the damage? Could this damage be counted as real world damage and satisfy the Catch for things that are immune to magic?

[luminos]

Thanks for the help folks!

I'm trying to get this down. Let's say I want to use a force attack to drop a car on a bad guy  . How would that work? Would my Power that I gab need to equal the difficulty shown on the Might chart, then I make a Discipline roll to hit? What about the damage? Could this damage be counted as real world damage and satisfy the Catch for things that are immune to magic?

That's kind of clever.  I'd let it satisfy the catch for things immune to magic, but I'd probably have that reflected by the fact that the damage done would be calculated differently than it would be for a direct damage spell.

[Deadmanwalking]

Thanks for the help folks!

I'm trying to get this down. Let's say I want to use a force attack to drop a car on a bad guy  . How would that work? Would my Power that I gab need to equal the difficulty shown on the Might chart, then I make a Discipline roll to hit? What about the damage? Could this damage be counted as real world damage and satisfy the Catch for things that are immune to magic?

Honestly, and fgoing by the Tree Attack spell in the sample spells section, I'd say you use a Fate Point to tag the otherwise useless "There's A Car" scene Aspect on the casting, and otherwise treat it as a normal spell.

[BlackDog42]

i noticed when playing at origins that spellcasting is quite damaging to a caster while in the dresdenverse casters can cast, to a degree, with out taking stress. has anyone thought of a way to make it a bit more even?

i was thinking about another power (homebrew) that lets you cast 2-3 (minimal damage) spells during an 'encounter' without taking stress hits. anyone have any suggestions or experience with this?

[Deadmanwalking]

First, I'm not sure I agree. Wardens use swords, guns, and even grenades. Would they really bther to learn the needed skills and do that so much if you could spellcast all day?

Still, there are a few House Rule ideas for that, my personal favorite is that you can cast spells at a number of shifts of Power equal to your Evocation Power Specialty in the element you're using without taking Mental Stress. This'll max out at one or two Shifts for starting PCs, but it should keep things from getting out of hand, which is important, since spellcasting is SCARY.

[luminos]

One thing that may be giving you trouble is that you seem to be thinking of stress in slightly the wrong way.  Stress =/= damage.  Stress represents near misses, and in spellcasting terms, its a form of measuring very small amounts of fatigue.  We see in the books that when Harry does a lot of spellcasting, at least enough to go past his stress limit, he does in fact start experiencing a lot of mental weariness, and spellcasting does get costly.  I think the stress for casting is an accurate representation of what happens in the book, and its damn necessary for game balance.

[BlackDog42]

@luminos i do understand that stress =/= damage, but it can..in one game i played i saw our magick user go down because he casted 3 spells (granted, one of them he powered up). my concern comes more as: 1 spell stress 1 = 1 stress 2 spells at stress 1 = 3 stress, etc.

[Baron Hazard]

re-reading the books right now, I'm doing so with the RPG in mind. I also plan to go in and use excerpts from the books as rules as examples for my group to really reiterate it.

and really it fits pretty well. Harry rarely evocates more than 3-4 times in a fight so that combined with his enchanted items seems pretty fitting.