Lawbreaker Questions

[Moriden]

Okay so you need to Completely Believe in what your doing with magic right? So to kill Anything with magic you need to completely believe that killing is right this means that there is no meaningful difference based on what your killing, because to you murder is Right and proper

There is Harry's argument that killing a mortal with magic is sacrilegious and that you remove a bit of "life" permanently from the universe but one of the summer queens flat out told him he was wrong on that and I'm more inclined to believe an embodiment of life then a young wizard.

Brian Blacknight

[srl51676]

The Laws only apply to the use of Human magic. To quote the text "whenever you make use of true black magic—using your talent in spellcraft in a way that breaks one of the Laws—you change yourself, darkening your soul." "Laws aren’t a legal entity at all; they’re a set of magical principles that, when broken, lead to a fundamental change in the nature of the person who broke them." YS232  Supernatural power are already part of the nature of who you are and so do not lead to the same consequences.

[Moriden]

The Laws only apply to the use of Human magic. To quote the text "whenever you make use of true black magic—using your talent in spellcraft  in a way that breaks one of the Laws—you change yourself, darkening your soul." "Laws aren’t a legal entity at all; they’re a set of magical principles that, when broken, lead to a fundamental change in the nature of the person who broke them." YS232  Supernatural power are already part of the nature of who you are and so do not lead to the same consequences.

there seem to be two separate things here. one your saying that non human magic dose not violate the laws. which would logically imply that i could use say hellfire to murder babies and not face the consequences which is untrue just on its face. what i think your trying to say is that non humans dont face the consequences because there not using human magic, which i believe is fairly clearly established that nonhumans don't face the consequences not because there using non human magic but because there not human and dont have "free will"

My argument on why killing anything with magic should have just as much of a mystical consequence as killing a human is because you need to in your soul and heart believe that that murder is Right and anyway you try to dress it up if in your should you believe that killing something is right then theirs no point in having the lawbreaker quality slowly change your aspects they should already reflect the fact that you are by your nature a murderer. by the same token if you don't believe that killing is right then you should be incapable of casting a spell that could kill someone.


Brian Berardi

[srl51676]

I would argue that if one were not a natural spell caster and used only sponsored magic that you would not be in violation of the Laws and the player can feel free to attempt to explain this to Captain Morgan or Lucio but making a coherent argument is hard to do if your head is 3ft from the rest of you. Using supernatural powers other than spell casting, Vampire mental controls for example, is not a perversion of ones soul since it is part of who you are already. As a vampire you have already crossed the soul perversion line long ago. Sponsored magic is a different matter.  As a GM I would rename the stunt from Lawbreaker to Soul corruption weather or not you "Broke the Law" is a matter for the Wardens or a WC trial whether or not you corrupted your soul is not open for debate because you have acted against the part of your nature that separates you from the monsters.

[Moriden]

srl51676 i really cant argue with any of your points[although im unsure if i agree on your distinction between human and inhuman magic]. i would like to make a distinction though at no point have i been referring to the social sanction of breaking a law as that is best left to rp and ic events. i am entirely and solely referring to the lawbreaker stunt's and the mechanical/ metaphysical aspects of them. this is why i maintain that the gatekeeper while immune to social sanction should in fact have lawbreaker on his writeup.



Brian Blacknight