Author Topic: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!  (Read 39964 times)

Offline LCDarkwood

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Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« on: April 12, 2010, 03:12:30 AM »
So, Fred and I had a discussion internally, and we're going to patch enchanted items. You all need to know for wizardy types, so I'm posting what the book's going to say here.

But, first, soapboxing, because that's how this works. :)

The Rationale

As we've been discussing persistent use items, it has become clear that the real awkward issue with implementation is the very idea of persistence - what does an "always on" X or Y mean, etc.

The issue is, as I said elsethread, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine for magical energy in the Dresden Files. Everything needs recharging or maintaining - mojo has to come from somewhere. We know that even on Harry's ensorcelled duster, the enchantments need to be maintained or recharged, because it mentions that in the books.

Originally, we thought of "always on" as a shorthand for this, assuming the maintenance stuff was between-session color. However, the real honest assessment of the setting is that everything runs out of mojo eventually.

Also, it's pretty clear that with some effects (namely Armor), cutting the effect shifts in half for persistence means you have to have a pretty high Lore to get items that are worth a damn. Especially in the case of the Warden Swords (which has been bothering me for a while, you know), it means that certain items just don't live up to their reputation from the books, which kinda sucks.

We concluded that the trade-off of allowing items to be more powerful less often was more setting-appropriate than being nerfed.

So we got cracking.

The Patch

There is no more such thing as an "always on" item.

Item slots still work the same.

Default item strength is still equal to Lore + spec/focus bonuses, with one free use per session.

You can remove shifts from item strength to add directly to uses per session.

You can also add additional item slots to frequency, to give you an additional two uses per session. The original extra slot benefits of +1 strength and new item still apply.

When you run out of uses per session, you can take a 1-stress mental hit to give yourself another use of the spell effect, like you would if you were casting a spell of your own. This isn't always going to be a good trade-off, but it gives you options. Hence, any item could potentially function perpetually, if you're willing/able to keep paying the piper.

Other Thoughts

This allows you, on any defensive item, to use either the Armor or block benefit with one use and take the more advantageous effect. It also means that you can get a benefit on odd-numbered Lore scores, and make a defensive item even if you only have Average Lore that doesn't totally suck, because you no longer have to cut the shifts in half twice.

Before you worry about defensive items and frequency of use, consider this - you'd only lose one "use" of the effect whenever it needs to be triggered, not every time you defend. If you dodge an attack, that doesn't use up energy - it only applies if you get hit and the item is what blocks/absorbs the hit.

So it makes defensive magical items more of a mystical ass-saving measure, which feels a lot more like how it's described in the books - it's Harry's last resort for when he can't dodge or otherwise protect himself. "Luckily, the blade was stopped on the flaps of my enchanted duster, or I'd have been a dead man," etc.

And if you're in a long fight, you have the option of throwing stress at it as a last ditch measure.

This also makes the Warden Swords hella awesome like I think they should be. It always bothered me before, that they had to be limited to three shifts of effect. Now they can do a Fantastic (+6) counterspell three times per session. Hell yeah.

Some Defensive Item Examples

Over in the 'Item Crafting' (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,16727.msg769640.html#msg769640) thread, we experimentally posited a specialist crafter who even put his focus item slots into helping out with crafting. Let's look at him again and see what we get.

In summary: Superb (+5) Lore, crafting strength spec (+1), focus item strength bonus (+2) from evo, default item strength 8, 4 enchanted item slots from thaumaturgy.

He uses one slot to make an ensorcelled coat. At default, that's a Legendary+1 (+8) block or Armor:4, with one use per session.

But he has three more slots. If he dumps all of them into more uses, he can do that effect 7 times in one session. (2 uses per extra slot, times 3 = 6 plus the free one)

He could also put two slots into effect strength, giving him a +10 block or Armor:5. That saves him one slot for frequency, which gives him three uses per session.

That's one hell of an armored jacket, ladies and germs. He literally has no other items, which means his evocations will be less effective and more risky, and his thaumaturgical spells will require more prep, take longer, and may be riskier. But, holy hell, +10 block.

Now let's go back down the ladder.

A novice wizard with a Lore of Average (+1) wants to make a defensive item. Default item strength is 1. He decided to put all his thaum slots into enchanted items, so he's got four slots to play with.

He uses one to make his default coat - Average (+1) block, once per session. He has three more slots. He splits them up, using two for strength and one for frequency, and ends up with a Good (+3) block or Armor:1, with three uses per session.

That doesn't suck, you guys! It potentially saves him a fate point or two on a botched defense roll, and puts him solidly in the territory of being able to ignore mortal assailants who aren't specially trained at killing. And remember, that's just 'cause his Lore is Average... maybe he's a really good evocator, so he normally brings active shield spells to the table. The coat is just for when he gets mugged or has to deal with your typical thug.

So, there it is.

Offline void

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 03:34:02 AM »
This is pretty awesome. Are you still looking at Crafting Frequency specialization/focus as an option?

Out of curiosity, is there any thematic space for someone burning some of their per-item shifts on uses, instead of additional item slots? I did like the idea of someone with high lore producing a weak but available often item, and it seems to be in keeping with the source material (citing a particular potion in a particular book that's still not spoiler safe). I'm not expecting this to be in core rules, i'm just curious about your thoughts on this.

Offline LCDarkwood

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 03:39:12 AM »
Are you talking about sacrificing item strength for uses? I said above that you can do that - sorry if that gets lost in the spam.

So you have Superb (+5) Lore, you have default item strength 5 with one use, but you reduce to strength 2 and get four uses. Without sacrificing any other slots.

This doesn't affect potions, though, keep that in mind. Potion slots are reserved separately.

But, I'm sure if you want to house rule some weird combinatory rule, it won't break anything probably.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 03:47:56 AM »
As a sample, and because I'm sure people want to use them, how are Warden's Swords built with this system?

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 03:50:01 AM »
As a sample, and because I'm sure people want to use them, how are Warden's Swords built with this system?

Warden Sword

The symbol of the authority of a Warden of the White Council, Warden Swords were enchanted by Captain Luccio to cut through both spells and matter.  They are very limited in supply!

A Warden Sword counts as a Weapon:3 sword at minimum in nearly all circumstances.

Spell provided: A Warden Sword uses two enchanted item slots. Built by Luccio’s formerly impressive crafting, the Sword can produce one of the following magical effects 3 times per session:

* The Sword casts a counterspell of Fantastic (+6) strength, provided the effect being countered can be physically attacked or touched by a sword (ethereal chains, good; a mental binding, not so much).
* The Sword may be treated as a Weapon:6 item for one attack.
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Offline Archmage_Cowl

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 03:52:29 AM »
thats awesome! thank you both so much for clearing these things up. They feel alot more on the mark now. :)
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Offline iago

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 03:57:44 AM »
(For those who are curious, yes, a Warden Sword slightly bends the rules in that we allow it two different spell effects to be selected from when making use of the 3 daily uses instead of just one spell effect. But Luccio had a special talent in her first body, after all, and that's gone now; consider the uniqueness and limited supply of the items to play into that. Also, the Weapon:3 thing with the sword, that's just because they're really well made swords, ala the result of a lot of time investment and a killer Craftsmanship roll.)
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Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 04:11:08 AM »
So would Harry's coat (made with Great Lore, and one item slot) be something like:

The coat provides either a Fair (+2) Block or Armor: 1 up to 5 times per session?

Because that's as close as can be gotten with it's current statting, but this version (made with Great Lore and two item slots) looks closer:

The coat provides either a Great (+4) Block or Armor: 2 up to 3 times per session.


Am I in the right ballpark, anyway?

Offline iago

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 04:13:58 AM »
That works if you're doing a two-slot version of the coat. As a one-slot version it's two fewer times per session in either version. :)
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Offline Belmonte

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 04:17:42 AM »
Is this going to be in the final version of the book?  Looks interesting.  Going to have to tweak my wizard, though. :)
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Offline LCDarkwood

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 04:19:52 AM »
The coat provides either a Great (+4) Block or Armor: 2 up to 3 times per session.

This is my leading assumption - that it's a two-slot item constructed at Great Lore with extra frequency.

As a one-slot item, either it just works once a session, or gives Fair / Armor:1 three times a session.

Reducing item strength for extra uses is 1:1. Using a whole slot for extra uses is 2:1, to create an incentive for doing so.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 04:21:48 AM »
That works if you're doing a two-slot version of the coat. As a one-slot version it's two fewer times per session in either version. :)

Oh, I see where I misread, one shift only gives one use, I was thinking it gave two like an extra slot.

Though the second is intended as a two slot item, so that one works out.  :)

Offline Archmage_Cowl

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 04:26:59 AM »
Quick question what about items that work for non spell casters does that still just half what ever they can do?
like in the case of a magic coat that takes up one slot and give a great(+4) block or armor:2 once per session can you half those values to a fair(+2) block or armor:1 once per session to make it usable for someone who doesnt have any enchanted item slots or maybe on a wizard who doesnt have a slot for it to fit into?
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Offline LCDarkwood

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 04:30:41 AM »
It's still just -1 strength to lend it out.

So, a Great (+4) block coat with three uses per session can be a Good (+3) block coat if you want to lend it out.

That'd take its armor bonus down to 1, though.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Enchanted Items Patch - Important, holy crap!
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2010, 04:32:51 AM »
Or you could toss on another Enchanted Item Slot to compensate for that.

My version of Harry ala Small Favor actually has a Crafting Strength specialty, and used that point to do it with (leaving it Great/Armor Value: 2).