Harry's Stats plus Assorted Other Stat Revisions (Small Favor through Cold Days)

[John Galt]

I meant that Harry's Power < Eldest Gruff's Power < Titania's Power.  We know he's somewhere in between there.  We don't know how powerful the Erkling is.  We've been told he's as powerful as a Queen or close to it but then we've seen Harry contain him with very little preparation.  

Unless there's a quote from Jim, I don't see why people assume he's so powerful.  The denarian he crushed was weakened and wasn't one of the most powerful denarians anyway.  Personally I'd put Eldest Gruff in Ebenezar McCoy's power level.  I think Leansidhe is almost in Odin's league and Odin is pretty far beyond Eldest Gruff, on par with Cowl.

Personally I don't think Eldest Gruff is beyond statting, but I think Leansidhe is at that threshold.  I might try to stat her but I wouldn't bother with Odin, Cowl or a Faerie Queen.  If I were GMing and my players were dumb enough to piss any of those characters off and engage them in a fight, the narrative would go: as you try to prepare for the fight, you die.

[ballplayer72]

Oh i wasnt saying that kincaid was powerful in magic, but just in sheer Kick you a**ness. i mean, dude worked for the drakul, and mccoy is sort of afraid of him, probably because he wont challenge you to a duel like a lot of other beings, he'll just blow your head off, i just assumed to have pissed of the blackstaff, and make him  fear you a tiny bit, you have to be a bamf.
And thank you for the nitpicks, lol, i am typing fast, i havent even had my daily caffine in the morning!

theyre certainly in the same profession (assassination) and kincaid seems to be not only more effective and quiet at it, but according to EB he's more experienced (he's older than Eb and had been at it for a long time when eb started) and pretty freakin dangerous as well as crafty.

Personally I think kincaid hides some SERIOUS mojo from his Other half, but I doubt we will get more than a glimpse of it in the next 4-5 books.  maybe after that

[Deadmanwalking]

Name: Sanya

Aspects:
High Concept: Knight of the Cross
Trouble: Do The Right Thing
Other:
Agnostic;
A Man of Many Contradictions;
Former Host of Magog;
Rosanna Broke My Heart And Their Hold;
Esperacchius, Sword of Hope;

Skills:

Superb: Conviction, Weapons,
Great: Athletics, Endurance, Guns,
Good: Alertness, Lore, Presence,
Fair: Empathy, Fists, Might, Rapport,
Average: Contacts, Intimidation, Scholarship, Survival,

Stunts:

Occultist (Creatures of Hell +1; Order of the Blackened Denarius +2) (Lore) (-1)
Wall of Death (Weapons) (-1)
Way of the AK (Guns) (-1)

Powers:

Bless This House [–1]
Guide My Hand [–1]
Holy Touch [–1]
Righteousness [–2]
Sword of the Cross [–3]

Total: -11 Refresh

Stress:

Mental: OOOO (+1 Minor Consequence)
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOOO
Armor: 2, from his Kevlar.

Notes:

Here's a somewhat more advanced Sanya, ala Changes (though his stats were likely a bit above the listed ones even in Small Favor). Two years of being the only Knight will definitely up your level of badass. He's also a nice, charming, guy and deserves some social skills. I'd peg him as a starting Submerged character plus 4 Significant and 4 Major Milestones, making his current Refresh 3.

[Deadmanwalking]

As for the ongoing discussion: I'm with John Galt and others for the most part on EBG. I think he's claearly badder than most Senior Council Members...but that doesn't necessarily narrow his power range down as much as it could.

As for Kincaid vs. Ebenezar: Ebenezar has vastly more power, or Kincaid would've behaved very differently during the Denarian battle in Small Favor, as well as when he was working for Harry in Blood Rites. Kincaid is old, smart, and has more skills than god, but his raw power isn't likely to be much higher than I've lited it as (which is half Ebenezar's FYI).

[Tbora]

Just curious how would you stat Sue the Zombie Dinosaur?

[Deadmanwalking]

I think the book actually did that pretty well, I don't feel the need for revision there.

[KOFFEYKID]

What I think everybody who is naysaying elder brother gruff's power is forgetting is the way in which he kills Maggog, and how it differs from almost every other magic user we have seen in the series.

When Harry casts a spell, it is noisy, flashy, and usually makes a loud sound. When Luccio casts a spell, its bright, thin, but still flashy.

When Elder Gruff kills with a spell, he taps you with his staff, and flowers sprout on your dying corpse.

We are talking hugely awesomely more bucket loads of control than any other evocator we've seen.

[Tbora]

How would you rate Cowl?

[Deadmanwalking]

In fairness, Magog flew 20 or 30 feet, then flowers bloomed from him, so still a little flashier than you're implying. IMO, Cowl is a bit less scary than the Senior Council (barring his Sponsored Magic, which makes him maybe on par), and thus very stattable, but we don't really know what his capabilities and limits are, so it's hard to actually do so in any but the most speculative fashion.

Still, I'd be willing to give it a try if people like.

[Tbora]

people like, so try

[Deadmanwalking]

Name: Cowl

Aspects:
High Concept: Dark Wizard, Darker Agenda
Other:
Plans Within Plans;
Nigh Invincible;
Allies of Convenience;
Cautious, Not Timid;
Magic From Beyond;
Deliberate and Methodical;

Skills:

Fantastic: Conviction, Discipline,
Superb: Endurance, Lore, Intimidation,
Great: Contacts, Deceit, Presence,
Good: Alertness, Athletics, Rapport, Scholarship,
Fair: Fists, Investigation, Stealth, Weapons,
Average: Driving, Empathy, Guns, Might,

Stunts:

You Wouldn't Dare (Can use Intimidation for Social Defense, including the Shutting Down trapping of Rapport. Doing so eliminates the potential for friendly social interaction.)

Powers:

Mythic Mental Toughness [-6]
Refinements [-17]
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
Sponsored Magic: Kemmlerian Necromancy [-2]
Sponsored Magic: Outsider [-2]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [+0]
Wizard’s Constitution [+0]
Lawbreaker: First [-2]
Lawbreaker: Fifth [-2]
Lawbreaker: Seventh [-2]

Total: -35 Refresh

Powers:

Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Earth, Spirit);
Power (Air +2, Spirit +5, Fire+1)
Control (Air+3, Spirit +4, Fire+1)
Thaumaturgy:
Control (Summoning and Binding +1, Necromancy +0 (1*) Wards +1, Transformation and Disruption +2);
Complexity (Summoning and Binding +3, Necromancy +1 (2*), Wards +3, Transformation and Disruption +4, Transportation and Worldwalking +2);

*With Kemmlerian Necromancy.

Focus Items:

Ring (+1 Offensive and Defensive Control for Spirit)

Enchanted Items:

Robe (10 shift Block or Armor 5, 5 times per session) (8 Item Slots)

Stress:

Mental: OOOO (OOOOOO) (+1 Minor Consequence)
Physical: OOOO (+1 Minor Consequence)
Social: OOOO

Note: Cowl may possess other Lawbreaker stunts, but these are all we've actually seen him use.

Cowl is an 11 shift Evocation user, with Sponsored Magic to boost his power when necessary. He is frightening on a truly profound level. Also, I made his robes a potent Enchanted Item to excuse his miraculous survival and explain why he is never seen without them.

He is, perhaps, capable of taking a Senior Council membr in direct combat, but not remotely their match in Thaumaturgy and it would be...risky.

As another note, when comparing him to the Senior Council, it should be noted that they all have positive Refresh totals remaining after their powers. Cowl, meanwhile, is well into the negatives.

EDIT: Added Mythic Mental Toughness to Cowl. That might be overstating it, but he has at least Supernatural.

[KOFFEYKID]

Shouldn't he also have Kemmlerian Sponsored Magic? Presumably knowledge of Kemmler's necromancy was needed to even attempt the darkhallow.

[Deadmanwalking]

Damn. Yeah, he should have it. I'll tack it on.

Though, actually, since Harry has eaten a ghost for power, and the Darkhallow is that writ large, I don't think it's actually required. Cowl was still totally a disciple of Kemmler and knows the magic, though.

EDIT: Fixed.

[KOFFEYKID]

now you need to give him a few points of necromancy specialization, and factor in the +1 Control/Complexity bonus from Kemmlerian Necromancy, Other than that, looks nice.

[Deadmanwalking]

Thanks.  That, too, has been fixed.

And yeah, I gave him the bare minimum. Necromancy is in no way Cowl's primary area.