Harry's Stats plus Assorted Other Stat Revisions (Small Favor through Cold Days)

[Sanctaphrax]

No, I hadn't noticed.

It does seem low though, now that you mention it.

[waddesdonbaz]

Sorry to play Kemmlerian with this thread, but what are your thoughts about Harry post Changes/Ghost Story/Cold Days? His refresh must have gone up by at least 5.

[Deadmanwalking]

Uh...I just read Cold Days and am in a Dresden-y mood again. Also, this forum has slowed down enough I don't feel I'll be overwhelmed keeping up with it...so I'm back. And will almost certainly be updating, well, everyone involved (basically, Harry*, Thomas, Murphy, Molly, Mouse, and maybe Butters...well, and Fix, Lily, and Maeve) for both Ghost Story and Cold Days. Though it may take a bit of time...

So, yeah, triumphant return and all that. Or something. Seemed like a good place for it anyway. Homey.

*Though I'm not gonna worry about Harry's ghost stats in terms of powers. I'm inclined to think those were mostly "You can spend FP and do appropriate things!" and very little else anyway.

[Deadmanwalking]

So, post Changes stuff are such big, well, changes that I'm doing new sheets. Here's a post Cold Days Harry.

Name: Harry Dresden

Aspects:
High Concept: Wizardly Winter Knight
Trouble: Am I One of the Monsters?
Other:
Epic Wiseass
I Trust My Brother
I Do What I Have To
Warden of Demonreach
The Building Was On Fire and It Wasn’t My Fault

Skills:

Fantastic: Conviction,
Superb: Discipline, Endurance, Lore,
Great: Alertness, Athletics, Intimidation,
Good: Contacts, Might, Fists, Weapons,
Fair: Deceit, Empathy, Guns, Investigation, Rapport,
Average: Burglary, Performance, Presence, Scholarship, Stealth,

Stunts:

Listening (See sheet) (-1)

Powers:

Refinements [-5]
Evocation [–3]
Thaumaturgy [–3]
Sponsored Magic: Soulfire [-3]
Sponsored Magic: Unseelie Magic [-2]
The Sight [–1]
Soulgaze [+0]
Lawbreaker (First) [–1]
Marked By Power [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Cold Iron and the trappings of Summer [+3]

Item of Power (Mother's Pendant) [+1]; effecting:
Worldwalker [-2]

Total: -26 Refresh

Specializations:

Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Earth, Spirit); Power (Spirit +2, Fire+2), Control (Spirit+1, Fire+1)
Thaumaturgy: Control (Divination +1); Crafting (Strength +1)

Focus and Enchanted Items:
None. This sucks quite a bit. I guess technically 14 potion slots, but he never uses them. See below for an idea on why.

Stress:

Mental: OOOO (+1 Minor Consequence)
Physical: OOOO(OO) (+1 Minor Consequence)
Social: OOO
Armor: 1, or by spell or item effect.

Notes on advancement by Book:

Small Favor: Harry has the stats in post #1 of this thread post-Small Favor. His Refresh is 18.

Turn Coat: 1 Major Milestone, 1 Significant. Harry’s Fists goes to Fair, and he gains Empathy at Average. His Refresh goes up by 1, which he uncharacteristically saves.

Changes: Four Major Milestones (Finding out he has a daughter, becoming Winter Knight, sacrificing Susan, saving his daughter). His Weapons rises to Good, while his Athletics rises to Great and his Conviction to Fantastic, and he gains Average Might. He also, unfortunately, gains -9 Refresh worth of powers (Marked By Power, Unseelie Magic, Inhuman Strength, Speed, and Toughness, with the above Winter Knight Catch, and an Item of Power granting Worldwalker) and would be reduced to NPC-dom at the end of the scenario...if other forces didn't intervene. His Refresh is -3 at this point (meaning he needs 4 to be PC-able again).

Ghost Story: Harry gets 2 more Major Milestones (finding out the truth about his death, Uriel's seven words) in this one, as well as a Significant (beating the villain). Due to losing at least all the physical powers, he is not an NPC for this. He gains Superb Discipline and Fair Empathy and Fair Might. His Refresh is now -1.

Cold Days: Okay, I think, to avoid NPC-dom, Harry gave up all his Item Slots for this one. That's a bit more than 3 Refresh, so by my calculations should leave him at 1-2 Refresh or so. I'd allow it as a temporary measure in my game if it made sense (which it does). But those Major Milestones keep on coming, giving him 3 more in this one (

(click to show/hide)

the true nature of Demonreach and his deal with it, the Nemesis, what's going on beyond the Outer Gates...all world truths, I know, but also deeply relevant to Harry

) along with 1 significant (

(click to show/hide)

killing Maeve/winning the day

) and raises his Fists to Good, his Alertness to Great, his Lore to Superb, and his Might to Good.

He is now Refresh 2/28 and 60 skill points. Damn. I'd personally bet he also gets another Refinement...but we won't know what it's used on till next book, so it goes unused for now.

On Lawbreaker: Personally, due to events in Ghost Story and Cold Days (and possibly even as far back as Changes) I think Harry's hit the point of going to -2 on Lawbreaker. That's not indisputable...but I think the evidence (particularly in his attitude towards death) is pretty compelling. If you agree with me, tack on another level of Lawbreaker (he has the Refresh for it)...if you disagree, don't.

[narphoenix]

I actually would think that the Warden thing would be important enough to make it to his HC. Something along the lines of WARDEN AND WINTER KNIGHT. Since you have to be a wizard to be the Warden.

[Deadmanwalking]

Anyone notice Thomas onl has a +1 Rapport?

Seems very low.

Longest response-time, ever, but: Aside from women wanting to sleep with him...he's really not as good as Harry at being friendly and likable. And Harry's Rapport is Fair. He's got Presence, and can lie his way through anything, but just being friendly? Not really his strong suit.

I actually would think that the Warden thing would be important enough to make it to his HC. Something along the lines of WARDEN AND WINTER KNIGHT. Since you have to be a wizard to be the Warden.

Debatably. I could certainly see it...but being a Warden in the classic sense hasn't been any part of what he's been doing for the last three books. At all. Being the Warden of Demonreach has, this last book, but that's not the same job at all, and I gave him an Aspect for it. If he goes back to his duties as a Warden, I'd then change it back, but not till then.

[Jebm]

Hopefully we'll see Fix finally get some more weapon related stunts. Since Harry mentions that Fix has instinctive fighting knowledge  on how to fight his Winter counterpart would you put that as a custom stunt?. Also since Harry specifically refers to him as a White Court Champion, do you think that would merit becoming one of Thomas's aspects if not his new HC?

[Deadmanwalking]

On Fix: He already had Great Weapons, which is nothing to sneeze at (Luccio and Michael have only a point higher and, like him, a single Stunt...only shiro really outshines him, and, well, he should in raw skill). I'll re-read the fight for re-statting purposes, but I'm not sure how many weapons stunts (or skill-buffs) he might get if any. I'm more likely to up his magic than his combat prowess, I think.

And the 'fighting your counterpart' thing is clearly a combination of Invoking their High Concept Aspects and being Compelled to do stuff via Sponsor Debt.

On Thomas: Not High Concept, that's not what defines him, I don't think. Maybe as something...I'll think about it.

[Sanctaphrax]

Uh...I just read Cold Days and am in a Dresden-y mood again. Also, this forum has slowed down enough I don't feel I'll be overwhelmed keeping up with it...so I'm back. And will almost certainly be updating, well, everyone involved (basically, Harry*, Thomas, Murphy, Molly, Mouse, and maybe Butters...well, and Fix, Lily, and Maeve) for both Ghost Story and Cold Days. Though it may take a bit of time...

So, yeah, triumphant return and all that. Or something. Seemed like a good place for it anyway. Homey.

*Though I'm not gonna worry about Harry's ghost stats in terms of powers. I'm inclined to think those were mostly "You can spend FP and do appropriate things!" and very little else anyway.

Welcome back!

Since you're here, I can thank you for getting me into this whole DFRPG forum thing. IIRC I originally signed up because I wanted to comment on your animal thread.

That aside, I think Harry should at least have Spirit Form for when he's a ghost. But canon Spirit Form doesn't model ghosts all that well, so lemme show you the rewrite that we came up with to fix that. It's kinda long, since it's supposed to cover a whole bunch of different types of spirit at once.

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SPIRIT FORM [-3]
Description: You are an incorporeal spirit form, able to pass through walls and other barriers in the mortal world. Thresholds still have an almost physical reality to you, however.
Skills Affected: Many, especially Conviction.
Note: This power may not normally be attached to Human Form, Feeding Dependency, an Item Of Power, Magical Self-Enhancement, or any other power that can "turn off" the powers it is attached to. The Astral Projection and Manifestation upgrades, if taken, entirely remove this restriction except with regards to Human Form.
Effects:
Insubstantial. You are invisible, inaudible, and incorporeal. This means that you can neither affect nor be affected by physical things, except as dictated under Vulnerabilities. Any magic that you cast is also incorporeal, and useless against anything physical. However, you can perceive the physical world normally, and under some circumstances it may be possible for physical characters to perceive and communicate with you. Characters with this power may affect each other freely.
Shaped By Belief. Your very existence is defined by belief. As a result, you are not closely bound by physical reality. You do not need to eat or sleep or breathe. Furthermore, you do not excrete wastes and you do not age. You are immune to both poison and disease. You may make Maneuvers and Declarations with Conviction to define your physical form and the nature of your interactions with the world.
No Real Body. You don't have a real body. Powers that allow characters to enter the bodies of others, like Possession, cannot be used on you.
Vulnerabilities. Certain physical things can harm you despite your intangibility. These things include ghost dust and fire. What's more, you cannot cross thresholds at all.
Unrealistic Spirit Form [-1]. The laws of physics only affect you if you think they should. Teleportation is possible for you. You may substitute your Conviction skill for your Might skill when exerting force, your Athletics skill when moving, or for any other physical skill as the GM feels is appropriate.
Spiritual Body [-0]. Your body and your mind are the same thing. You have one stress track that is used for both mental and physical stress. Its length is determined by your Conviction skill. Size, Toughness, and Stoicism powers apply to this track, but mental stress bypasses physical Powers and vice versa. Consequences taken on this track do not recover naturally unless you provide some form of special justification, generally involving the absorption of memories. More severe consequences require more elaborate justifications.
Quasi-Solid Spirit Form [-1]. You can exert a tiny amount of force on the material world. Normally this does nothing of importance, but when machinery is around you can often interfere with it. You may use Conviction to make maneuvers disrupting physical machinery and moving small objects.
Optional Spirit Form [-2]. You may suppress or reactivate this Power whenever you please. Doing so takes an action if you are engaged in a conflict. Using this trapping is an insane act for a ghost, and as such this trapping may not be possessed by sane ghosts. (Other forms of spirit might not have this limitation, and physical creatures that can become ethereal almost certainly don't.)
Projected Spirit Form [-1]. You are a physical creature, but you can leave your body when you feel inclined. You normally do not have access to this power, but you may gain access to it any time by taking a supplemental action. When you do so, your physical body is unconscious and immobile. You may return to your physical body at any time by physically entering it with a supplemental action. This upgrade is not compatible with Optional Spirit Form.
Involuntary Spirit Form [+1]. (Requires Optional Spirit Form or Projected Spirit Form) You have no control over whether or not you are corporeal at any given time. Choose a condition in collaboration with the GM. This condition determines whether or not this power is active at any given time.

As for the item slot thing, you can probably just ditch some Refinements or have them give Specializations. Dropping Powers like that may or may not be possible by the RAW, but Harry's got a good excuse.

You might also be able to get rid of Listening or Lawbreaker. YS mentions that redeeming a Lawbreaker might be possible. And Listening isn't really important to Harry's character.

Then again, my local bookstore is going out of business so I haven't read Cold Days yet. Maybe I'm missing something important.

[Deadmanwalking]

Welcome back!

Since you're here, I can thank you for getting me into this whole DFRPG forum thing. IIRC I originally signed up because I wanted to comment on your animal thread.

You're very welcome. 

That aside, I think Harry should at least have Spirit Form for when he's a ghost. But canon Spirit Form doesn't model ghosts all that well, so lemme show you the rewrite that we came up with to fix that. It's kinda long, since it's supposed to cover a whole bunch of different types of spirit at once.

That looks workable. And yeah, he was clearly incorporeal...it's just all his other powers that seemed fiat-based to some degree. Also, the whole thing was very temporary and left no ongoing effects per se...so I'm just not that worried about it, to be honest.

As for the item slot thing, you can probably just ditch some Refinements or have them give Specializations. Dropping Powers like that may or may not be possible by the RAW, but Harry's got a good excuse.

You might also be able to get rid of Listening or Lawbreaker. YS mentions that redeeming a Lawbreaker might be possible. And Listening isn't really important to Harry's character.

Then again, my local bookstore is going out of business so I haven't read Cold Days yet. Maybe I'm missing something important.

Ah! Well, I don't think it's a huge spoiler to say that he doesn't use a single item the whole book. Hence, my saying that he scrapped his Item Slots temporarily...which, at 1 Refresh per two slots, pays for things pretty well.

[Sanctaphrax]

That looks workable. And yeah, he was clearly incorporeal...it's just all his other powers that seemed fiat-based to some degree.

Declarations are good for that. They basically run off of "that sounds reasonable".

[Deadmanwalking]

Declarations are good for that. They basically run off of "that sounds reasonable".

Absolutely. 

I don't consider this a problem...it's just thus pretty much not in need of statting.

[Jebm]

Since we now know that the Items of Power aren't needed to grant the Sidhe Knights their physical enhancements, what would you suggest  to replace those powers?.

[Deadmanwalking]

At this point, I'm not sure we have any evidence that they have Items of Power at all. On that basis, I'd probably skip them having them.

[Sanctaphrax]

But if you want to make the Declarations with a skill, you need a stunt or Power adding that trapping to the skill.

And we do want to make the Declarations with a skill (probably Conviction) because it's narratively appropriate for willpower to dictate how well the ghost mojo works and because most ghosts (including Harry) won't have the FP to do many Declarations without a skill.