Sell my group on the using the FATE system

[Damian Magecraft]

I am an long time gamer (30+ years) and a new fan of the Dresdenverse.
I have several friends who are requesting I run a DFRPG for them; as the resident RPG guru I have successfully translated several universes into one system or another.

I am familiar with most game systems; however my experience with FATE is limited to online discussions on various message boards most of which are extremely vitriolic against all but the system of the moment. Those discussions tend to devolve into flame wars so I thought perhaps I would get a better view of the system here. Is this going to be a system that will be easily used and welcomed by players familiar only with a small handful of systems (mostly D20, nWoD, SWD6, and GURPS)?

[finarvyn]

Is this going to be a system that will be easily used and welcomed by players familiar only with a small handful of systems (mostly D20, nWoD, SWD6, and GURPS)?

Short answer: no.

You are going to have to train your players a little first. The game systems you listed off are somewhat traditonal RPGs with a lot of rules and charts to work from. FATE (derived from the old FUDGE system) is more open-ended and gives both players and GM a lot more options. FATE is more "storytelling" in nature as well, and players who are used to mindlessly rolling dice based on a character sheet full of numbers will find that FATE won't make sense at first.

My training was in 1970's OD&D, before the rules explosions occured and rulebooks became encyclopedias of rules and exceptions. Many RPGs today are like legal documents and rules lawyers interpret and enforce the rules to the letter of the law. My players never really did this so the jump to FATE was a pretty smooth one, but if your players are rules-sticklers they may object at first. Traditional RPGs give you lines of data. FATE, FUDGE, and similar games tend to have you use actual words (or catch-phrases) to describe what you can do and allow the players and GM to interpret your abilities as play unfolds. Scary at first, yes, but worthwhile at the end.

Storytelling games are at their heat about trust in the GM. As a situation develops the GM has to decide on-the-fly how difficult the task or how significant the modifier, and there aren't pages of charts to rely upon. Players have to trust that the GM will make a good ruling and play can continue. At the saem time, the GM has to trust that players will run a character instead of a pile of numbers. The game becomes more collaborative as the GM gives up some control of the story and the players embrace it.

A different question would have been "will my players enjoy FATE?" and I suspect that the answer is "yes". Most players I have encountered have to be re-taught a little first, but they seem to really enjoy the FATE experience once they figure out how it works.

So ... what can you do? Go to the FATE website, download FATE for free, and give it a look-over. Or pick up a copy of Spirit of the Century, which uses a similar system, is by the same basic creative team, helps line their pockets will much-needed cash, and will give you a feel for how FATE works.

Hope that helps a little. 

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd advise judging for yourself. The Spirit of the Century SRD can be found here:

http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html

That's the entire system for SotC, pretty much in it's entirety, and obviously gives a very good rundown of the system (at least as used in that game), read it and judge for yourself. The Dresden Files RPG will obviously use a different system variant, but a lot of things are going to be very similar (a character being made up of Aspects, Skills, and Stunts, for example, as well as the basic system mechanics). It's also an extremely neat and fun game in it's own right.

[Bosh]

Take a look at this thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=495619 and the links in the fourth post.

To give you a short answer, FATE is the only RPG I've ever seen that significantly improved the amount and quality of RPing in my group. Just seeing it in action for the first time was very awesome. However, FATE doesn't work for everyone and you definitely have to be in the right mindset for it to work, as it pretty much throws all attempts at being realistic (in the physics sense) right out the window and replaces them with having things make sense in terms of the story/genre that you're working with.

[srl51676]

Is there anywhere we can see or hear an example of play either in written or video/audio form. I would love to see how the game runs for people with FATE experience.

[Damian Magecraft]

I appreciate the suggestions to DL the PDF, and visiting RPG.net.
Sadly the pdf is not an option (my comp is not the greatest) and my experiences with RPG.net are not the best (too many flame wars).
The SRD does seem to be helpful.
I may have further questions after i finish reading through it.

[TheMouse]

I think that people spend a lot of time focused on what makes FATE different and that they miss the very traditional core that drives the thing.

At its most basic, FATE has you roll some dice, add a stat, then compare to a difficulty. Although the curve is a bit different, it's conceptually quite similar to a 2d6 + stat versus diff system that players pick up on in like five seconds.

Then there are Stunts and Aspects.

Stunts, again, are quite intuitive. If your players have played d20, they'll probably liken them to feats. Stunts are things that let you use Skills in a way that you normally could not, or they give you a bonus under certain situations.

Aspects are where we start to see something a bit unusual. They are player defined traits which are designed to bring some narrative fact about your character into mechanical focus. Functionally, they are like a merit and a flaw glued together, but with more narrative focus. The counterintuitive bit is that they don't do anything unless someone is using a Fate Point; yes, it really only matters that your guy is "Strong like an ox" if you spend the FP on it. Some people don't react well to this.

The other thing about the game that throws some people is that movement is both abstract and tactical. People generally don't expect that. Locations get divided into abstract Zones through which characters can move. Although it is very simple to track and doesn't correspond with exact amounts of distance, your movement through Zones is mechanically relevant and your tactical interaction with them actually matters. My players caught on in a couple of rounds, but I have heard that some people just don't. Mileage. Varies. Yours may.

Then there's Stress. Characters don't have hit points. They have Stress in a couple of categories. When a physical thing hurts them, they suffer physical stress. Get enough, and they get a Consequence (such as "winded" or "I obviously landed on my face"). Consequences are more Aspects, but they are focused toward having life suck for you. This assists people in hurting you, but it also increases the number of Fate Points you get (since they need to spend them to use a Consequence).

There are a couple of other fiddly bits, but this really covers most of it. Aspects are a bit abstract at points. How things hurt you interacts with that, so it's a bit abstract. Movement is abstract. Other than that, it's not all that unusual a system. It's also a lot of fun, hugely flexible, and really robust in terms of its ability to stand up to fiddling with it.

[TheMouse]

my experiences with RPG.net are not the best (too many flame wars).

Weirdly, the FATE fans over on RPG.net are a really positive, helpful crowd. The Cubicle 7 folks and the creators of Diaspora all post there and are often willing to go to great lengths to help people out with FATE. There are a number of people -- Kiero comes to mind -- who just like FATE and are happy to jam about implementations of it.

With rare exceptions, FATE threads over at RPG.net are good resources. There are very few detractors, and some of the people who post positive stuff there have wonderful ideas.

[Damian Magecraft]

Weirdly, the FATE fans over on RPG.net are a really positive, helpful crowd. The Cubicle 7 folks and the creators of Diaspora all post there and are often willing to go to great lengths to help people out with FATE. There are a number of people -- Kiero comes to mind -- who just like FATE and are happy to jam about implementations of it.

With rare exceptions, FATE threads over at RPG.net are good resources. There are very few detractors, and some of the people who post positive stuff there have wonderful ideas.

Past experiences have taught me to avoid that site. The are not kind to players of the systems I use.

If what I have seen and divined of the FATE system is correct it seems to play similar to the old FASERIP system. If this is the case then I should have no troubles GMing it nor shall my players have any troubles in playing through it.

[Bosh]

FASERP is pretty close overall. The Fate points try to do the same sorts of things as FASERIP karma points, but (in my humble opinion) do it much much better.

[traeki]

Something that really surprised me was how effective the Setting Creation part of the DFRPG game was both for my group and for me as a GM.  One warning: it took us a LONG time.  I came down with pneumonia this past week, so I haven't had the energy to blog about it, but I plan to write-up my playtest experience sometime soon.

The summary, in any case is that we used the guidelines to create a San Francisco in which to game, and it was a HELL OF A LOT OF FUN.  It was also profoundly different from the GM-driven game experiences I've had in the past.  I was leading a giant brainstorm session.  And at the end of it, I have all this material for telling stories.  I don't have to come up with plot hooks, the players gave those to me themselves.  I'm still struggling with scenario creation because, frankly, I'm a pretty novice GM, and there's a lot to make sense of.  But what's great is that I know what ever I come up with my players will be invested in.  I'm using *their ideas*.

Now, will they be happy with the game system itself?  That remains to be seen.  But I will say that they seem really excited about getting together again this weekend for our first actual play session.

I personally think FATE is the coolest system I've had the pleasure to examine.  But it won't appeal to everyone, and in particular it is not a simulationist RPG.  The game is very deliberately skewed to make all the player characters cool, irrespective of their actual metaphysical capabilities.  And if you're a dyed-in-the-wool player of games like Hero or D&D, that's going to feel kind of weird, maybe even "unfair" or "broken".  But in exchange for those deliberate imbalances in _mechanism_ you get a very balanced and even-handed _story_.  And although it's got a sort of narrativist bent, FATE is nowhere near as freeform as something like PDQ, or Dogs in the Vineyard, so there's enough crunch for players of simulationist games to at least get a foothold. 

My advice is, don't try to sell your players on the system.  Run the setting creation, and that will sell them on the game.  Then you can just tell them "here's the rules", and they can either accept that, or they can reject it and lose all the awesomeness they just helped create.  They'll be at your beck and call, man.