Dresden Files: Series Timeline

[sagan]

Technically late May is still spring. I shall have to notify him of this, when betadom begins.

Astronomically Summer starts in June, but I've always referred to Summer as starting at the end of May, at least in the UK everyone I know follows that rule, we're british so we need all the summer we can get. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same in the US, usually there's a holiday that goes with it like Memorial Day.

[Phil Boswell]

Astronomically Summer starts in June, but I've always referred to Summer as starting at the end of May, at least in the UK everyone I know follows that rule, we're british so we need all the summer we can get. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same in the US, usually there's a holiday that goes with it like Memorial Day.

I usually think of it as:

• Spring: March, April, May
• Summer: June, July, August
• Autumn/Fall: September, October, November
• Winter: December, January, February

Is that the astronomical way?

[Arjan]

It is about the longest and the shortest day. The 21th of June and December have meaning.

[Priscellie]

I usually think of it as:

• Spring: March, April, May
• Summer: June, July, August
• Autumn/Fall: September, October, November
• Winter: December, January, February

Is that the astronomical way?

The astronomical way is:
Spring: March 20 - June 20
Summer:  June 21 - September 22
Fall: September 23 - December 20
Winter: December 21 - March 19

Your way makes a lot more sense to me, though.

[draxius]

The astronomical way is:
Spring: March 20 - June 20
Summer:  June 21 - September 22
Fall: September 23 - December 20
Winter: December 21 - March 19

Your way makes a lot more sense to me, though.

Actually, it's a lot more complicated than people realize. To start with, everything is "reversed" when you flip the conversation from the Northern to Southern hemisphere. However, since things in the Dresdenverse are largely centered around Chicago, lets leave that variable out. (We'll also not get into how that might impact, say, Mab during a visit to New Zealand...)

Astronomically, the solstices and equinoxes are the middle of each season, not the beginning. Hence terms like Midsummer and Midwinter which, with a little bit of research, you'll find line up with their respective solstices.

Meteorologicaly, the seasons are as Phil pointed them out (Spring being March to May, Summer June to August, etc).

Observance of the "seasons" is a cultural phenomenon, based on a real phenomenon called "seasonal lag" - which is basically how long it takes the seasonal shift to affect the weather patterns. As a result, the reckoning of seasons is based on a bunch of factors, and is largely a national phenomena. In the US, the generally accepted version (and the one taught as "correct") is that each season begins on an equinox or solstice.

The Wikipedia article on Summer actually breaks down these difference really well.

I'll spare you all my babblings on the pagan calendar, and how it connects to all of this.

[Quantus]

(We'll also not get into how that might impact, say, Mab during a visit to New Zealand...)

Well, fwiw, there is a WOJ about the Stone Table that indicates both courts have access to it when and where they should.  So it appears that while Summer is in power in the Northern Hemisphere, Winter is in Power in the Southern, and Vice Versa. 

[Sharlee]

Well, fwiw, there is a WOJ about the Stone Table that indicates both courts have access to it when and where they should.  So it appears that while Summer is in power in the Northern Hemisphere, Winter is in Power in the Southern, and Vice Versa.

Or the Southern Hemisphere isn't a factor in determining the Courts' relative power, because most of the planet below the equator is ocean and dominated by the Fomor, who hate both Courts.

[Beamer]

There seems to be a math error in this:

Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
 
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)

Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974

[draxius]

There seems to be a math error in this:

Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
 
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)

Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974

I agree with you here. I've tried to point out the same thing. FWIW, I'm still in the "Storm Front is in 2000" camp, which would have Harry being born in '74, as you've mentioned.

[Sharlee]

Turn Coat:  All public records of Demonreach Island were scrubbed some time in the 19th century.

[Priscellie]

There seems to be a math error in this:

Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
 
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)

Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974

I'm not sure where you're getting your "If 3 ASF is 2003" supposition.

[Lawgiver]

Changes happens in October of 11ASF.
Ghost Story Starts May 9th 12ASF.
In GS Harry is told he’s been “gone” 6 months (May to October is only 5 months). Are we a month off here, or did Changes happen late enough in October (very near the 31st) that “Early May to Late October” is considered “close enough” (whole of May thru Oct inclusive is 6 months).

Also, just a note: Harry’s therapy in CD, “began on Aug 15th “77 days before October 30th when Mab sent Cat Sith to prepare him for his midnight birthday party.” This leaves a time gap from early May (GS) to Aug 15th (CD) when he’s finally lucid enough to ID himself to Sarissa. In GS, Harry spent two nights in his grave, so the story ends on May 11th – so he spent 96 days recovering.

[Lawgiver]

Some observations on the Timeline concerning Victor Sells.

SF, Ch 21 (Harry narrating)
“I had to confront Victor Sells, as strong a practitioner as I had ever gone up against, in his own place of power --…”

“Victor was powerful, strong, a natural mage – but he wasn’t practiced.”

We have no information whether Victor had ever demonstrated talent previously. We would probably have to accept this as a “retcon”, as it is later established that unused talents atrophy. Mort Lindquist is one example. He never completely lost it and worked his way back into it. Charity Carpenter is another. We’ve been lead to believe that she could, theoretically, recover her talent but it would be a long, difficult process. Regardless, Victor is a “natural” who “found” his magic – or, as we’ve come to believe, was likely introduced to it… at about age 30-35...and likely coached to some degree. A question is, when did this happen in the story timeline?

SF, Chs 20 & 21 (Harry narrating)
“A door opened in the hallway behind Monica. A girl, on the gawky edge of preadolescence, with hair the color of her mother’s, leaned out into the hallway.”
   
This is Jenny Sells. Adolescence is taken to be the onset of puberty. The ‘gawky’ edge of it would, normally, be between the ages of about 10 to 13. Everybody’s different, so for convenience we’ll average Jenny at age 12.

“A boy, perhaps a year or two younger than his sister, poked his head out, too.”

This is Billy Sells, Jenny’s brother. “Roughly” two years younger than Jenny would make him age ~10.

(Monica Narrating)
“It was when Billy was about four that Victor found the magic.” So, Sells ‘found’ his magic about ~6 years BSF.

Time flows and the following DV events (according to the ‘approved’ Timeline) occur:

6 BSF: Harry leaves Eb’s farm.
4-6 BSF: The most recent version of the Unseelie Accords is signed.
4-6 BSF: The White Council holds their last hearing for a known violator of the Laws of Magic.
5 BSF: Harry arrives in Chicago and begins odd jobs (including dance partnering).
5 BSF: Alicia Carpenter is born.
4-5 BSF: Harry starts working for Nick Christian at Ragged Angel.

Monica then narrates a fairly typical personality change in Victor over time as the damage to his psyche/spirit through the use of Black Magic sets in; he gets moody > reclusive > violent, etc. She also recounts her own induction into Victor’s “circle” of magic, the use of ThreeEye, Victor’s ‘discovery’ of how to use his anger to power up his magic to produce more ThreeEye – and eventually discovering that sex can too.

“Then he found out that for what he was doing, lust worked better. So he started looking around. For backers. Investors, he called them.”

More time passes and the following DV events occur:

4 BSF: Susan Rodriguez begins working at the Arcane.
4 BSF: Ivy’s grandmother dies. Ivy is born and her mother suicides making Ivy the Archive.
4 BSF: The last time Charity sees Harry before GP. Michael is hurt and Charity chews Harry.
3 BSF: John Marcone has become a threat to the Vargassi Family. Amanda Beckitt is shot.

“He found the Beckitts. They had money. And he told them that if they would help him, he would help them get their vengeance on Johnny Marcone. For their daughter.”

“And he started the rituals. The ceremony. He said he needed our lust.”

“But it wasn’t enough. That’s when he started talking to Jennifer [Stanton, Monica’s sister]. He knew what she did. That she would know the right kind of people. Like her, like Linda [Randall].

“Linda introduced him to Marcone’s man. I don’t know his name, but Victor promised him something that was enough to bring him into the circle.”

“Marcone’s man” would be “Gimpy” Lawrence. So, “Gimpy” had been part of Sells’ ‘circle’ for up to three years, though probably less.

In this period the following DV events occurred.

3 BSF: Harry finds Mister. Amanda Carpenter is born. Marcone learns of Amanda Beckitt.
2-3 BSF: Restoration of Faith --- Harry meets Murphy and Faith Astor.   
2 BSF: Marcone topples the Vargassis. Harry learns about Undertown.
2 BSF: Harry starts his detective business and meets Susan.
1 BSF: Murphy makes Lieutenant and is put in charge of SI.
(Somewhere in her: Welcome to the Jungle)
0-1   BSF: Thomas and Justine meet at Zero. Hope Carpenter is born.

Don't know if that straightens anything out for anyone but I didn't see much addressing Sells and his activities in the Timeline and thought I'd give it a shot. Enjoy.

[Lawgiver]

Just found this. Don't know if any one else as tipped to it.

What year was Dresden born?
Q&A at Wyrd Con 5, May 8, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyAKU7sNWYI
Timestamp.31:28

Q:

What year was Dresden born?

JB

Uhhhhh…ahhh…let’s see… the first book was in 2000 and he was 25 in that book, so what’s that, mid nineteen-seventy… five?...yeah… '75, '76? He’s about 5 years younger than me.

So...Jim seems to have flubbed the math a little...
He says firmly, SF is based in 2000. Period.

We know SF is set in March of 2000.

He says Harry is 25 in that book. So he is already 25 as of March, 2000.

Harry was born on October 31st.

To have had his 25th birthday prior to March of 2000, Harry had to have been born on October 31, 1974 and turned 25 on October 31, 1999.

Hope that helps.

[Lawgiver]

Additional note -- Going over the Timeline, I’m aware you’ve already indicated some “glitches” in the computations for the ages of Michael and Charity Carpenter. But… 

With above link and knowing SF's setting year and Harry's year of birth we can nail some thigns down more firmly.

There are problems with the birth dates for Michael vs Charity.
++++++++++
~43-48 BSF (now 1952-1957): Michael Joseph Patrick Carpenter (named by Charity from GP ch7) is born.

He is supposed to be ~20 years Harry’s senior. Harry, we now know, was born in 1974, so Michael’s birth year should be very close to 1954 (43-46 BSF).

If born in the given date ranges, Micheal would be between 57 and 62 as of SG. If born in ’54 (to stay a solid 20 ahead of Harry), he would be right ~60 in SG (depending on whether he’d had his birthday yet that year).

++++++++++

~36-39 BSF (1966-1969): Charity is born.

This is where we begin running into trouble.

These years would make her 31-34 as of SF and around 45-48 as of SG… as opposed to Michael’s projected SG age of ~60 >>> a 12 to 17 year difference, but…

They're supposed to be close to the same age…

“Close” and 12-17 don’t match well. The least differential I can compute with those #’s is a 9 year difference -- still not “close”.

The dates of "36-39 BSF" correlates with Charity being 22-25 when she was rescued.

“36-39” years BSF (prior to 2000) would be 1961-1964 making Charity approx. 5 years older than that..

Your citation for the rescue is ~’86-’87 makes Charity approx. 26-27 at that time, not 22-25, and more commensurate to Michael’s age.
+++++++++++

1976-1979 (20-23 BSF), Charity’s talent first manifests before her 16th birthday.

This seems more accurate as the impression in this comment is that Charity was 15, approaching her 16th birthday. The above range would work pretty well if Charity were born around ’60-’61 but, if that were in ‘62/’63 it would have made her as young as 12-13 which (while technically still valid as ‘before 16’) becomes a conflict with the “15 impression”.

+++++++++++

13-14 BSF (1986-1987): Michael rescues Charity from the dragon Siriothrax.

This would put their respective ages at Michael ~32-33 and Charity ~26-27 (as mentioned above).

++++++++++

I think that whole "1966-1969" citation for Charity’s birth might need to be backed up to ’60-’61 (or 39-40 BSF) to balance the scales better.

Questions?