Perfect Casting, part 2

[dwilson1282]

yeah that does look like a harry and murp picture. neat.

[Jaeh]

lol, still not convinced, sorry.

[MoSeS]

"Completely wrong". Moses, at the risk of offending you although that is not my intent or desire in any way whatsoever, that's prejudiced. That's categorically judging one or more ethnic groups as being "wrong" for a role. "Reverse" discrimination does not exist; there is only discrimination against one more ethnic groups, saying they're not good enough or they're wrong for any one particular thing. What makes that any more acceptable than casting only ____ for a given role? And why would that be any better than only HIRING _____ for _____ job?

I tell you this: making those fill-in-the-blanks anything OTHER than completely open fill-in-the-blanks is discrimination.

I'm not offended by your words, I am a little offended that you don't think a certain culture should be allowed to represent itself accurately.

I admit that I stereotype, but the difference with me is I am a firm believer in stereotyping.
Depending on what your idea of stereotyping is though.
i.e. "Mexican's are lazy" is bad stereotyping, but "Jews are good with money"....well what's wrong with that?

I myself am a mutt. I am Filipino, 4th gen Spaniard, German, Irish/Scottish, and 5th gen Cherokee.
Additionally, I have 3 half African American neices and nephews, one half Japanese nephew, and one half Puerto-Rican neice. The other half of all of them is same as me. BTW these are from my 3 different siblings.

I guess that's why I am ok with it.

I believe every culture should take pride in their heritage.

Moreover those cultures should be able to flourish in Hollywood and the Silver Screen as well.

I feel like casting the wrong ethnic background would be equal to casting a midget to play Harry Dresden.
Wouldn't not casting a midget be stereotyping in the other direction, sure, but that's because it would be terrible casting.

But that's just my opinion.

[MoSeS]

Oh my god.

Give him a perpetual five o'clock and several dozen bruises, and it would work. Holy crap, kennedy! Good call!

He definitely has the look. I haven't seen this show so I don't know how he acts. Does he seem to do snarky well?

[dwilson1282]

If it helps I was pissed about the main casting choice of "the Last Airbender" as well. I wasn't going to see it anyway, because M. Night Shamalan directed it, and he's terrible, but I'm with you on that.

There's a good movie produced (and I think directed) by David Duchovny (spelling?) called "things we lost in the fire," and in it his character is maried to Halley Berry's character, and they have children. When they were in pre production, one of the producers voiced concern. He said something like, "How are we going to cast the children?"
and Duchovny said, "umm... you find lighter skinned mixed children?"

[tiny[but]fierce]

and Duchovny said, "umm... you find lighter skinned mixed children?"

lol. that much would be obvious. Are people really this stupid that they really have to ask what kind of child they should find to cast for a ethnic marriage?

[MoSeS]

If it helps I was pissed about the main casting choice of "the Last Airbender" as well. I wasn't going to see it anyway, because M. Night Shamalan directed it, and he's terrible, but I'm with you on that.

I been hearing and reading a lot about this.

I have never actually watched the show, nor did I see the movie.

I think it's safe to assume that the characters are from the region of Tibet judging by the clothing, which would mean that they could range from Indian to Chinese.

However at a quick glance of the kid's profile I can see why they chose him for the part.

"At age 12, he achieved a first-degree black belt rank with the American Taekwondo Association and is proficient with a variety of Eastern weapons"

Might not be too many kids out there that look the part and are black-belts in martial arts.

[dwilson1282]

Its not that hard to achieve a black belt in that system. From experience, I know this.

[MoSeS]

Its not that hard to achieve a black belt in that system. From experience, I know this.

True enough, but how many are actors that look like this.


I agree. You would think that if you put out an APB for a role that you would have 100's of auditions.

Like I said, I don't really have an opinion about the casting for that though since I haven't seen it.

[Thaumologist]

Its not that hard to achieve a black belt in that system. From experience, I know this.

But at the same time, achieving a black belt means he won't need as much tuition to make the stances work. Ok, the art itself is different, but he will have some basics, and the right body shape. His audition tape was doing a kata (I think, and maybe even bunkai) in his gi. The reason he got the part was due to his skill, nothing to do with his ethnicity. Although, he has only been training for three years, which isn't really that much. I mean, in shotokan karate (WAYYYYY different I know), it takes at least five years of training to become a somewhat good black belt. With a good instructor. When you attend at least thrice a week. Without fail.

But to come back to topic:
I feel actors need not be the same ethnicity as the character. Yes, it is wrong to put a caucasian into the role just because of his skin tone in the same way as it would be for a job in marketing. But if the caucasian actor is better than the applicants of the actual race, then i don't find it an issue.

Who here has seen Die Hard? Can you think of any way IRL that Bruce Willis would have been able to take out Rickman and his crew? This is suspension of disbelief, and is why films and tv and theatre are awesome. Really, does it matter about the ethnicity of the actor if their acting is good enough to make you enjoy the film?

And to avoid trouble, none of this is to be taken personally, I am not trying to snipe at anyone, any race, any religion or anything. So if i offend, I apologise in advance. Race is a touchy subject

[dwilson1282]

Maybe not Bruce Willis.
But Chuck Norris? Definately.

[MoSeS]

if the caucasian actor is better than the applicants of the actual race, then i don't find it an issue.

I agree.

Who doesn't love Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Yet even when his accent was super thick, he still played American characters like in Commando or Predator.

Alan Cumming is really good at doing a German character even though he is Scottish.

Gerard Butler played a Spartan and he didn't even speak Spartan!?!

Viggo played a good Eastern European/Russian in Eastern Promises.

Mickey Rourke as the Russian guy in Iron Man 2

Djimon Hounsou might be playing Kratos in a God of War movie.

I could go on and on with examples of good casting that wasn't authentic, but my point is this though, why not try to get it close when and where it is applicable?

Basically I am saying I don't want see a white guy play Shiro, I don't want to see anything but a black guy play Sanya, and I want to see a real latina or at least half latina play Susan, and a Native American for Injun Joe, etc.

I don't see why not, I already picked out good actors that authentically fit the role, so I don't see why Hollywood couldn't oblige.

[MoSeS]

Moreover I don't think you could really get it exact anyways.

For example I think Wes Studi would make a good Listens to Wind, but he is Cherokee and LTW might be Navajo (but I can't recall), I still think that would be better than casting Tom Cruise or something to play LTW.
However I can also see casting Danny Trejo as LTW too because he looks the part. But to be technical many Mexicans are Native American too.

[dwilson1282]

lol. that much would be obvious. Are people really this stupid that they really have to ask what kind of child they should find to cast for a ethnic marriage?

Yes.

[Shecky]

I'm not offended by your words, I am a little offended that you don't think a certain culture should be allowed to represent itself accurately.

I admit that I stereotype, but the difference with me is I am a firm believer in stereotyping.
Depending on what your idea of stereotyping is though.
i.e. "Mexican's are lazy" is bad stereotyping, but "Jews are good with money"....well what's wrong with that?

I myself am a mutt. I am Filipino, 4th gen Spaniard, German, Irish/Scottish, and 5th gen Cherokee.
Additionally, I have 3 half African American neices and nephews, one half Japanese nephew, and one half Puerto-Rican neice. The other half of all of them is same as me. BTW these are from my 3 different siblings.

I guess that's why I am ok with it.

I believe every culture should take pride in their heritage.

Moreover those cultures should be able to flourish in Hollywood and the Silver Screen as well.

I feel like casting the wrong ethnic background would be equal to casting a midget to play Harry Dresden.
Wouldn't not casting a midget be stereotyping in the other direction, sure, but that's because it would be terrible casting.

But that's just my opinion.

The actor's ethnicity is practically a non-issue. Let's review the bidding:

Take, for example, the role of Susan in our hypothetical casting. She's described in a way that seems Latino, and her name is Hispanic (or Spanish). But what in that says she can only look one way? I personally know a lot of people who would qualify by both aspects, yet are in no way Latino by heritage. Should they be discriminated against because they aren't actually Latino?

From the other direction, heritage alone is utterly a non-qualifier in casting. My best bud's wife is Latina. But she has blonde hair and blue eyes. For any role requiring a generalized Latina look, she'd be a non-starter.

My point is simple: start casting people with their personal ethnic background as a requirement and you've moved into the realm of ethnic discrimination. Pure prejudice based on the past, not on ability to play the role. Now, I do believe that a scren adaptation of a book should at least try to capture the appearance of the character as described. Be that as it may, that's simply the ability to fit the role. Period.

Let's stop trying to separate actors (who are, last time I checked, still people) by their background and start trying to judge them solely on their ability to play the role as written.