How powerful should a protagionist be?

[Willowhugger]

An interesting question and especially appropriate one to fiction where the protagonist might be a vampire, wizard, world's greatest fighter, or so on.

:-)

[terioncalling]

Should never be too powerful.  If they're too powerful, then there is nothing to throw them up against.  The good protagonists are the one's where they have weaknesses that can be exploited by those around them and not be all powerful.  They can be beaten down but will get up and fight back though they're beaten and battered to hell'n back.

Harry's a grand example of a good protagonist in my opinion.

Hence why Superman has never been a good protagonist in my mind.  He's just too powerful and the only thing that can bring him down is kryptonite.

[Willowhugger]

Hence why Superman has never been a good protagonist in my mind.  He's just too powerful and the only thing that can bring him down is kryptonite.

Well obviously something works about Superman because he's been 70 years at this point without missing a beat and will easily make it to 100.  I think the biggest problem with Superman is the "perception of power" with him.  Superman can't accomplish everything but everyone feels he can. 

Oftentimes, the perception of a lead's power is more important than his actual level of it.

[SirThinks2Much]

Well obviously something works about Superman because he's been 70 years at this point without missing a beat and will easily make it to 100.  I think the biggest problem with Superman is the "perception of power" with him.  Superman can't accomplish everything but everyone feels he can. 

Oftentimes, the perception of a lead's power is more important than his actual level of it.

A very good point. No matter how powerful a character is, if everyone just expects him to do everything, his limitations will become evident. Also, he'll cross the moral line of letting people decide their fate for themselves.

To quote Luthor from Superman: Red Son: "Why don't you just put the whole WORLD in a BOTTLE, Superman?"

In response to the OP, though, every protagonist should have a weakness that actually can hinder his/her performance. Take for example, Vampire Hunter D: he's got the goods, i.e. immortality, super strength/speed, some vampiric abilities--but is susceptible to sunlight and the darker side of his vampiric nature. Not to mention that everyone, human and vampire included, tend to hate his guts. (okay he kills all the bad guys anyway, he's kind of a bad example.  )

In any case, a character can have weaknesses aside from physical limitations. Psychological, emotional, and personality issues can affect a protagonist negatively.

[Abstruse]

Your protagonist's power is directly related to the antagonist's power.  He should have JUST enough power to be able to beat the antagonist at the end, but only by the skin of his teeth and probably by using several things to his advantage (situational conditions, the Holy Magic Artifact of Gobbledygook, etc).  Your main character can be a god as long as there's a stronger god smacking him down.  Audiences love rooting for an underdog, but at the same time in most genres, they want larger than life characters.  So your wizard/vampire/psychic alien android may be able to destroy and entire city with his powers, but the bad guy better be able to destroy the whole state (which is much more impressive in my hometown because I live in Austin, TX).

Oh, and remember that the baddie in Book 2 has to be stronger than the one in Book 1, otherwise it's boring.  I mean, who wants to see Rocky kick the crap out of a heavyweight champion, then in the sequel fight some high school nerd?

The Abstruse One

[blgarver]

I'd tend to agree that Harry is a pretty good protagonist.  He's uber powerful, but he pays a price for his power, which often leaves him vulnerable for attack from one of the several enemies.

That's another cool thing about Dresden; no matter what his immediate goal is, he's got a handful of other baddies trying to get him while he's down.  So his real power is his skill at juggling all the difficulties he's going through.  That's a mental fortitude that doesn't really have anything to do with his magic ability.

This is something I need to work on in my own writing; raising the stakes, really piling it on the main character.

Protagonists like Superman have always bugged me.  One of my favorite rivalries is the one between Wolverine and Magneto.  All the X-Men are pretty awesome protags too.

[Josh]

In forming a character, I always try to enact a price for whatever power they have. If they have some great gift that lifts them above the commonfolk, then they're going to pay for it! Their power demands some sacrifice, which then makes them (hopefully) a bit more of an indepth, conflicted character and one who is more interesting to see how they not only employ that power, but how they deal with the cost. For instance, in one story I've written, the character is extremely powerful and is able to employ all manners of magic around him while most people are limited to one style. The only problem is, in order to access said powers, he must rip them away from those who have them, which tends to destroy their will to live. He doesn't really like doing this, being all moral and stuff. The antagonist has similar abilities, and, of course, has no qualms about doing whatever is necessary for the power. So...yes, way powerful, but that whole struggle and balance can become a deeper part of the story itself.

[Abstruse]

Don't forget your price for the power can simply be all the crap they have to go through because they have the powers.  Most of Harry's problems aren't due to him using magic, it's due to his belief that his power gives him strength he should use to help and protect people.  He could easily pay his bills and even become wealthy using his abilities to sell hocus pocus to country singers on heroin or other rich folks.  And that's not even counting all the flat-out illegal ways he could get money.  He could live very comfortably...but he chooses not to.  He chooses to do the right thing.  And in doing the right thing, he brings the White Council, the Red Court, the Black Court, Winter Queen, and whoever else he pisses off all upon himself.  So keep that in mind too.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

[blgarver]

Don't forget your price for the power can simply be all the crap they have to go through because they have the powers.  Most of Harry's problems aren't due to him using magic, it's due to his belief that his power gives him strength he should use to help and protect people.  He could easily pay his bills and even become wealthy using his abilities to sell hocus pocus to country singers on heroin or other rich folks.  And that's not even counting all the flat-out illegal ways he could get money.  He could live very comfortably...but he chooses not to.  He chooses to do the right thing.  And in doing the right thing, he brings the White Council, the Red Court, the Black Court, Winter Queen, and whoever else he pisses off all upon himself.  So keep that in mind too.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

Yeah, this is very true.  Dresden does have iron will, that's for sure.  And it makes you wonder about your own character; whether or not you'd be able to stick to your morals.

I think I would be, for all of you familiar with D&D, a Chaotic Good character if I had some sort of wild powers.  I'd use them to benefit myself as long as there was nothing inherently immoral about whatever task I was doing.  Unlawful is different than immoral.  For the most part I'd be a law abiding bad ass, but not all laws are driven by moral fiber.  Like trespassing or stupid stuff like that.  I'd probably break a few laws here and there, but still try to do the "right" thing in the moral sense.

[The Corvidian]

One of my protagonists is very powerful, but he has to hide it. He has been reborn many times, and over these lifetimes, he as picked up knowledge, wisdom, and a few enemies. Also, if he were to use his full power, it would draw attention to him, because a couple of monastic orders think that he is the reincarnation of their founders. They keep trying to get him to come and lead them, and he has had to refuse them on more then one occasion, & once very violently. He also made an enemy of a group a few lives back, and the few members are trying to get even for supposed past transgressions.

[Dom]

I know that it makes good storytelling, but one part of me is wondering why magic has to have some horrible downside.

I keep thinking of, oh, art.  Drawing, or writing stories.  Both are rather magical to people who never do them, but there's no universal Downside or Punishment for being an artist or author.  And you can still make loads of bucks doing it without being unethical, if you're really really good.

And then I was thinking of another profession, like, I dunno, stuntman.  Totally different upsides, downsides, and risks.

And then, other talents and careers.

Not sure where I'm going, just a little thought nibbling away at my grey matter...maybe it should be its own thread...

[fjeastman]

Protagonists need to be capable.  They've got to be interesting and provide the reader with vicarious thrill.  I mean, I know I'd like to be able to point a stick and say a word and blow up a car.  That would be excellent.  But I can't.  That Harry can is cool.

But I don't think they have to be super-powered.  Even in a supernatural storyline.  They have to be capable of overcoming the opposition ... but, to make a character human, they need flaws.  And sometimes I think authors give powerful characters unreasonable flaws to provide broadside weaknesses to be exploited.

Usually the progression seems to be ... "Protagonist identifies self as normal or weak, but has special power that makes them center of story."  Then, "Protag discovers something special, possibly unique, about themselves and their power."  Such as Harry being very strong with fire evocations, if a bit wild, and having a mysterious background that we'll probably find makes him rather unique among wizards ...

At the same time, coming from an enjoyment of traditional crime/gumshoe novels ... your main character doesn't have to gain progressively cooler and more explosive powers.  Over time, Spenser (Robert Parker's character) hasn't sprouted any new capabilities.  He's always been a hard-hitting smart-talking P.I. who doesn't know when to stop.  Actually Parker has been revealing that Spenser is slowing down, getting older.  Same with John D. MacDonald's Travis McGee.  By the end, Travis McGee was getting older, less willing to brawl.

I think a long-running supernatural series could, seriously, have a normal human protagonist with no developing ability, no godlike power. 

--fje   

[NewClassic]

It really really depends on the situation in question, and how you intend to write the character. Which includes long-forwarded developments for that character.

For an example, I'll use a rich boy who's small, nearly crippled with a inactive tumor. The boy in question is small, nonmuscular, unable to run due to his tumor, and mentally capable to be studious, but no where near smart enough to be witty and clever in his actions. Our character runs into a terrible crash with a violent, vengeful assassin. The assassin vows that he will never forget the day. Our rich protagonist hires a bodyguard. The bodyguard is more of a nanny than a gun. The nanny uses his intelligence to add to his fee and hire a gun as well, leads the boy through many traps using simple intelligence, and the hired gun to help throw in a punch where needed.  The boy himself is far disabled, but his nanny and the nanny's gun play to his strength (money), and theirs (brains and guns, respectively.)

Or we could just have a superpowerful character (Let's pretend we've got a character like Merlin from the Dresden Files) who has enough ability to kick-down some doors (or worlds) and stomp some bad-guys, but with his knowledge is incapable of doing the smaller touches of help for the long run, and when paired with powerful enemies (fairy and vamp courts.)

That kinda thing. I'd elaborate more, but I'm pressed for time. That's my 2 cents, at least.

[pathele]

To me its about balance. If the character is very powerful, then he is very flawed and those flaws offset the power he wields. 
For instance, in one of the ST:NG episodes there was a planet where everything had been destroyed except one house. The creature who lived there wiped out an entire race with a thought, but the guilt was devastating to him (and he couldn't bring them back).
Ok, so maybe not the best example...

But look at Harry. He is very powerful. Much more powerful than he was in SF. But his "flaws" are mounting as well (ie, the fallen in his head, the anguish over Susan, the responsiblity for Molly, duties as warden, etc) 

just my thoughts.

-paul

[NewClassic]

Now that I have more time, I'm going to elaborate on my earlier posts a bit.

Protagonists deal in two major currencies:
Power and Potential.

Is the character powerful enough to deal with whatever conflict he's facing, or does he have the potential to later defeat his conflict. I'll put examples from Dresden Files and Codex Alera:

Ye be warned, read all of Jim's books, up to the newest, or you may be spoiled.
SPOILER A-FREAKING-LERT!

Power: As it stands, it's clearly shown that Harry can set flame to an ancient manor, killing everything inside save for the extremely powerful. He can also blow enough wind to re-route a concentrated, pressure-driven stream of gasoline set ablaze. Harry also has the option to instill in himself necromantic energy of epic proportions, to allow himself to be taught by a fallen Denarian, and a powerful winter fairy, to submit himself as the powerful Knight of the Winter Court, and summon allies as powerful as a demonic mercenary and the Blackstaff of the Senior Council. Add on the fact that Harry already wields enough metaphysical muscle to burn down buildings at will. Or, additionally, Harry has the power to put it all behind him and lead a peaceful life with friends, a life that isn't wrought with danger and worry. Also a world with Susan.

But Harry doesn't wield either of those powers, because Harry has the guilt of the people of Chicago, the Special Investigation of the CPD, and the friends and allies, including the weak or magicless. Harry has the option to gain power, enough so to perhaps crush the earth itself on a whim. But Harry doesn't accept this power because of the effects of it. So, Harry, barely powerful enough, scrapes by through clever plans, magical tricks and trinkets, and determined allies. And his enemies aren't always all-powerful. It's the difference between a police officer and a criminal. The criminal doesn't draw the line as early as the cop, if he even draws the line at all. Harry has to draw the line. To not kill with magic, to not blow up the innocent bystanders locked in the closet. Harry's power is checked by his conscious.

Potential:
Tavi has potential, in spades. He's among the most obviously powerful strategists in Alera. He holds allies among the Marat, and perhaps the Canim (maybe.) He's now coming into fire furies (maybe?), and quite probably many more. But the reason he's lived to make such allies and surpass amazing expectations isn't because he had power, it's because of his potential. He was given tools which he used where others would or could not. He effectively did what many could not. He played to his strength well despite his weakness, and lived to the potential he needed to overcome his conflict, not once, but twice. Because of this, he makes a strong protagonist because of his potential, not his power.

End FREAKING Spoilers.

So, in summary, a protagonist can hold his own with or without power. If he's powerful, he needs something to keep him in check, if he has potential, he must come into his potential, or die trying.