How powerful should a protagionist be?

[Josh]

I know that it makes good storytelling, but one part of me is wondering why magic has to have some horrible downside.

I keep thinking of, oh, art.  Drawing, or writing stories.  Both are rather magical to people who never do them, but there's no universal Downside or Punishment for being an artist or author.  And you can still make loads of bucks doing it without being unethical, if you're really really good.

And then I was thinking of another profession, like, I dunno, stuntman.  Totally different upsides, downsides, and risks.

And then, other talents and careers.

Delayed response, but here's my thought on this. Art...well, let's take writing for example. It does have its price and its downsides. I do believe this. It costs you Time. It costs you lots of Time if you want to do it and do it well and make a modicum of success doing it, as many people will tell you. What is a downside to writing? Well, unless, like you said, you are really really (I'd throw in a few more really's) good, you aren't often going to make big bucks, even though the dream is there. So you are sacrificing a lot of time and effort and putting yourself through isolation and all that personal angst from the inner editor and critics and rejection from those nasty editors and agents who can't see the beauty of your story...for? A small advance and bad reviews perhaps? Even if you are a good, potentially great writer, the cost and effort only grows as your audience's expectations grow with each story. Sure, it's not as cut and dry as someone having to sacrifice their first born child to enact a spell, but there are costs and there are downsides. Perhaps "cost" and "punishment" aren't necessarily interchangeable terms in this regards (though they certainly can be for a better story, like you said). Everything worth doing has them...things you give up...areas that you are weaker in because of your focus on your passions. Is writing magical? Darn tootin'. Does it have its costs? Oh yez.

[Richelle Mead]

From a writer's point of view, it makes it very hard because a too-powerful protagonist is never in any real danger.  My succubus isn't overly powerful, but she is immortal, so...um, her life is never in peril.  Writing certain storylines has proven a real bitch because of this since I can't up the stakes.  Instead, I have to put her loved ones in danger.

I imagine this is true for any writer with a too-powerful character.  We read books to see triumph over adversity...or at least some kind of struggle.  Remove the struggle, and well...

[Slife]

Just powerful enough to carry out the plot with difficulty.

Really high power levels can stil be done well. For example, think of the Chronicles of Amber.  The protagonists can create worlds almost effortlessly.  And it still works as a series.

[Velkyn_Faer]

One of the main things about Harry Dresden is he is powerful, but he still makes mistakes and still fights people just as or more powerful than him. There are many times you see him walking away from a fight limping, bleeding, and ready to pass out. He isn't a STAR WARS hero, who walks away without even breathing hard (I was a huge SW fan, so please don't get after me about that. I'm mostly speaking of the movies, not the books.) Power should be realistic, and as many people said, relative to their enemy.

However, I'd love to see a bestselling book where the protagonist tries and tries and tries his/her best....... but still loses, and the whole world goes to hell. Or something of that sort. I'm becoming fairly cynical to the stories where the 'forces of light beat back the forces of darkness against overwhelming odds and save the whole entire universe with twelve men, a stone wall, and two coils of duct tape.'

Velkyn

[CrazyGerbilLady]

My protagonist has power, and potential for more.  But she is inexperienced, accident-prone, and afraid of her own powers.  She has help in the form of a guardian angel, but he's limited in what he's allowed to do to help her out.  So she's really not only going to be fighting the bad guy but also her own issues.  My problem is going to be making sure I balance out the two conflicts.  I can tell I'll have a tendency to over-emphasize the inner issues and under-emphasize the bad guy!  I'd rather have the two balanced though.  We'll see.

[WonderandAwe]

You also much consider the situation that your protagionist is in.  Let's use Harry Dresden for an example.  In a magical battle (where he has had time to prepare), Harry is pretty hard to beat.  In the last battle of Summer Knight, he was able to take out one of the major Fae powers because he had time to plan.  However, in other areas, Harry is basically screwed.  The scene in Death Masks, where Harry has to defend his actions at Bianca's mansion to the White Council, he royally screwed that up.  Tactful Harry Dresden is not.  If it wasn't for Mab, he would have been boxed up and served to the Red Court.  Harry's strengths, outthinking and taking down bad guys, don't really work when the good guys are gunning for you.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

A very good point. No matter how powerful a character is, if everyone just expects him to do everything, his limitations will become evident. Also, he'll cross the moral line of letting people decide their fate for themselves.

To quote Luthor from Superman: Red Son: "Why don't you just put the whole WORLD in a BOTTLE, Superman?"

The biggest problem I have with Red Son, which other than that I pretty much love unreservedly, is that for a Superman brought up the way that one was, the in-character answer is "Why not ?", and for a classic pre-CoIE Superman who is genuinely both massively more intelligent than everyone else in the world and good to the very core, he sdoes know better than you and he is right to run the world his way.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Hence why Superman has never been a good protagonist in my mind.  He's just too powerful and the only thing that can bring him down is kryptonite.

Superman's weakness is his moral rectitude. Convince him that not doing what you want endangers innocent lives and he'll do what you tell him.

[prime_spirit]

It is essentially the protagonist's story you're writing about and thus, he/she must have certain issues that the reader could relate to. Such as taking the bus or driving the car to work or take on the bad guys in a battlefield or sneak into the fortress. It's the choices the protagonist makes, rather than the best of his abilities (indeed maybe the lack of his abilities) which makes a charcter who/what we can love and cheer to.

Oh gods and freaks, I think I subconciously quoted JKRowling's Dumbledore of COS .

But still, the system works. The character grows, he loses his abilities and makes different choices. You question what if he still had the power and then which way would it force him/her to do the best thing or the right thing.

Indeed, I plan to make my character with super-potential and super-strong but her choices restricts her from acheiving top level. Not to mention getting crippled socially, physically, magically and emotionally (in that order). But remember, what makes a book is the characters. Plural. There are others that would support my protagonist along the way, those she had helped before. They wouldn't want her to give up no matter how much she just wants to lay down and disappear.

So it doesn't matter how tough/weak your protagonist is. Preferably, the tougher he is, the more people needed to bing him down. He could be a god with phenomenal cosmic power but it still comes down to either sacrifice his family/friends so their pure blood can heal the planet or rescue them to a temporary heaven and risk bleeding reality to the demons. It's the walk that goes with the talk .

[Cathy Clamp]

I, too, like an antagonist that would NORMALLY be able to kick butt on the hero, except that something has happened to change the dynamics. Whether the hero has sought out help (like Harry asking for the werewolves' or Summer Lady's help, etc.) or has crafted some sort of response in the form of magic, etc.--it shouldn't be a walk in the park. Likewise, paying a price, even in a single title book, is a good idea. If it's easy, there's not enough conflict, IMO. 

[Erlkoeneg]

I would say that it depends on the character, and what the situation is going to be.

Most characters defiantely need a cap, because that's much mroe realitstic.
But there are exceptions. Like one of my characters, Sam Crescent. The guy is basically omnipotent, so all of his conflicts are emotional/psychological. These conflicts are often made even mreo dificult by the fact that it is impossible for him to feel the emotion 'love'

[jib]

i think a protagonist must be different from everyone else, which means they must have qualities that make them better, stonger, cleverer, extraordinary or whatever. BUT the most important thing is that they remain human (even if they are vampire, werewolf or anything else). They need to have a certain amount of vulnerability to remain credible. They can develop new and amazing powers, but only inside the limits of the story, meaning new powers can't just pop up like daisies from the ground. They have to fit into the continuity and the protagonist's character. A protagonist should never be too powerful. Otherwise you end up having a second anita blake, who's pretty much unkillable, comes up with unexplained and ridiculous new powers just when she needs them and doesn't even have a proper story to justify all the 800 pages of way too graphic sex anymore. and we wouldn't want that, would we?  anyway, that's what i think.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

A protagonist should never be too powerful.

I still disagree, and my favourite counterexample is Mike Carey's Lucifer, who in that setting is more powerful than anyone else except God, absolutely ruthless at the "will set the world on fire to light his cigarette" level, and still manages to get some fascinating stories and conflicts.  Partly because, in order not to get bored, he will play your game by your rules and win anyway; partly because he never, under any circumstances, breaks his word or tells anything other than the exact literal truth, but he does have a gift for letting people interpret what he says differently from how he means it.

[Spectacular Sameth]

If you give them too much power, you can always attack them emotionally, though that tends to get old sometimes.

For instance, the Green Goblin in the first Spider-man movie says it best "Attack his heart, Osborne. Attack his heart." So what'd he do? He injured Peter's aunt and threatened to kill MJ and a bunch of kids. This is why Spider-Man wears a mask...if people don't know who he is, then they can't hurt his loved ones, but he can't always protect them. While Spider-Man is still human and can be killed by a bullet or something like that...he still has the emotional weaknesses. Overpower, but with a price or overpower, but with something to protect.

[The Corvidian]

Dresden also limits himself because he scared of what he might become, the very thing that he fights against. I think in a sense, he is attacking that part of himself that he hates and fears.