Critque

[pathele]

I have a couple of questions about critques.
1) How long do you wait in your projects before you let someone critque it? (ie. first draft, second draft, when I'm satisfied)

2) Do you use a critque checklist? If so, how did you develope it?

I am about 3/4 of the way through the first draft of my current novel. My usual reader has asked when I am going to let her read it.
I haven't decided yet. But it got me wondering what the rest of you do.

-paul

[Mickey Finn]

I do it by chapter, like Jim does. Alot of folks don't.

[Darwinist]

I tried the by chapter suggestion and it got a bit frustrating. For an established series like Butcher's Codex and Dresden series, it's probably not so difficult because the premise, idea, characters, and scenery are already well established. But if you're starting from scratch with something new - it can be nerve racking imo if the beta reader has to wait between chapters. Details, ideas, characters tend to get forgotten.

[meg_evonne]

1) How long do you wait in your projects before you let someone critque it? (ie. first draft, second draft, when I'm satisfied)-paul

And, uh, not to be mean or anything, but Mr Butcher is a pro and already has a solid outline and let's face it--is freaking, awesomely, good at what he does. (Same for Mickey, I'm sure!) 

For us--uhm, normal writers it's another world.  I suspect we would drive our readers insane with all the changes and we'd have to bug them forever.  (I'm not counting spouses and significant others, cause they sort of have to read as part of their commitment to you!)  To be honest, I prefer to wait until I've worked with my editor who can find the content mistakes that I missed.  Such as --"oh what do you mean, you didn't catch what I said back in Chapter 10?", "okay,let me go back and re-emphasize it cause I'm a clutz and an idiot."  Worse yet, how embarrassing to realize that a character did something that came out of left field--because I THOUGHT I included it earlier." 

I just finished a YA, 1st of 3, but didn't chart out all three completely--so, writing in two, realized I had to go back to 1 and handle problems to set up 2 and 3.  And guess what?  I know I'll have to do it again at least once or more.  Mr Butcher has 20 slotted and set.  Blows my mind.

Oh,yeah, definitely in the later department for me.  :-) Now watch Neurovoure, Liz, Rob, Seekmore and others give you an entirely different take!

 

Writing, I've learned is as individual as the writer.   edited as I used the wrong quote.

[seekmore]

I have a couple of questions about critques.
1) How long do you wait in your projects before you let someone critque it? (ie. first draft, second draft, when I'm satisfied)

I have a handful of people I run initial ideas and various things by as I'm writing "Does this sound right...?", "This paragraph...is something off to you?", "My main character's reaction seems realistic here, right?"

When I've completed my first draft(which in actuality is hundreds of tiny drafts fitted together...I'm kind of anal about it), I have three people I send it to:

My brother: critical, a perfectionist, well-read
My mother: good with language, and great with a red pen
My friend: critical, unforgiving, and a good story-teller

Once they shoot holes through it, the second draft begins.

[LizW65]

Second draft here.  I do have a checklist, a copy of which I've provided.  It's tailored to my project and what I believe are its particular strengths and weaknesses, but anyone here is welcome to use as much of it as he/she wishes:
CRITIQUE CHECKLIST FOR BETA READERS--LIZ'S WORK IN PROGRESS

*  Does story have flow?  Do individual scenes hang together in a cohesive way?

*  What can be done to make first chapters more gripping, esp. to agents and publishers?

*  Are characters engaging?  Which ones do you like/dislike and why?  Is each character's "voice" individual enough?

*  Is narrator's story sufficiently compelling and purpose-driven?  If not, how can this be improved upon?

*  Does the overall plot make sense?  Is the solution too obvious/not obvious enough?

*  Any plot holes you can drive a truck through?  Inconsistencies of plot/character/continuity?  Explain.

*  Do any characters behave in ways that are TSTL (too stupid to live) or that seem out-of-character?

*  Are characters' motivations clear and consistent (except where deliberately ambiguous)?

*  Which scenes "work" for you and which don't?  Why?

*  Any glaring anachronisms or factual errors?  How can the time period/setting be more clearly delineated?

*  Is the story suspenseful?  Does it have a sense of urgency and build to a climax?  What do you suggest to improve on this?

*  Is there sufficient balance between action and exposition?  First and third person scenes?

*  Is the overall tone consistent?  What do you find jarring and why?

*  Overall, does the story hold your attention?  Do you care about protagonists and what happens next?

*  Is the format clear, consistent, and easy to read?  Any unintentional spelling/grammar errors?

*  What can be cut without sacrificing plot/character?

*  Do you believe story is potentially marketable as first in series?

[pathele]

Thanks, Liz for the checklist. It's great. I will, I think, be adapting it to my current work.

Thanks everyone else for their input. 

-paul

[meg_evonne]

When I've completed my first draft(which in actuality is hundreds of tiny drafts fitted together...I'm kind of anal about it), I have three people I send it to:

My brother: critical, a perfectionist, well-read
My mother: good with language, and great with a red pen
My friend: critical, unforgiving, and a good story-teller

Once they shoot holes through it, the second draft begins.

*Raise my glass in toast*  May we all have the three above! *clink*

Great checklist Liz!  Thank you for posting!

[thausgt]

Sometimes I use critiques to get around writer's block. The story flows from my head to the screen (or, occasionally, the notebook) up to a particular point, then stops. Sometimes I can't restart it, so I'll show it to my long-suffering fiancee or a few other friends and see what they make of it. Occasionally, they point out something missing or in the wrong order or whatnot, and that gets my creative juices flowing again.

In that context, the story is kind of like a literal program, 'hanging' because of an error. In other cases, they're able to ask questions that hadn't occurred to me, considering which helps me approach the block from a different perspective and therefore getting past it.