Test Audiences...helpful or hurtful?

[blgarver]

Hello all.

I was wondering how many writers (pro or otherwise) used a test audience to gauge the story as it's being written.

I have about 5 people I give my chapters to as I finish them.  I don't ask for editing or anything like that, just feedback on the plot and characters and other story elements.  I know a lot of writers would say to never let anyone read anything until it's completely finished, but I've found that I get a lot of encouragement from my test audience.  When they finish reading the latest chapter, they're always really eager to get the next one.  So if nothing else, it's a little bit of a motivational technique.

I try to avoid using friends and family as test audience, because of the bias.  I find people at work I don't know on a personal level and things like that. 

So, anyone have thoughts on using a test audience?  Is it good or evil?  Does anyone else do this?  Who do you choose to read your unfinished story?

Thanks!

BLG

[Mickey Finn]

Well, Jim has a beta list for his work, so I'm guessing he'd say it was good.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Hello all.

I was wondering how many writers (pro or otherwise) used a test audience to gauge the story as it's being written.

I do.

People reading as you go along and wanting more are helpful for motivation. People reading the whole thing for flow are also useful, and I do prefer that to be separate people, good alpha-reading and good beta-reading are quite different skills.  And the only way to tell whether someone will actually be good at it for you is to test them on your stuff., sfaict.

I try to avoid using friends and family as test audience, because of the bias.

I'm not sure I'd want someone looking over my stuff whom I did not consider a friend, but on the other hand, I have a strong preference for brutal honesty over niceness in my close friends.  And it is possible to find yourself marrying to your best test-reader, years down the line.

[Dom]

I've a test audience...varies between one and three people. It is good for morale for someone to comment as you write, and also, it's really, really fun to be able to discuss your world with someone and not have them look at you funny.  It's even better if they like one of your characters.  It's also good to have a second pair of eyes look things over so they can point out flaws or comfirm things that you've seen yourself but aren't sure if you want to cut or not, even early on on the story.

I don't have family look my stuff over, and not-like-me friends...meaning, friends I didn't meet through books.  I tend to be very quiet and innocent-looking in real life, and I'm not really sure how they'd take my stories.  They'd look at me considerably differently, I'd think.

[Abstruse]

I gave up on that.  I kept giving stuff I'd written to friends to get opinions and the conversation, no matter how well-read or educated the person, would go like this:

Me: So what did you think?
Them: It was good!
...
...
...
Me: And?
Them: And what?
Me: Care to expound a little more?
Them: What?  I liked it, it was good.
Me: Well, what did you like?
Them: Everything.
Me: Was there anything you didn't like?
Them: Not really.  It was good.
...
Them: What?
Me: Seriously, you're not going to hurt my feelings.  Just tell me honestly what you thought.
Them: I liked it!
...
...
Them: What?
Me: <mumbled> Thanks.

And I just don't have the heart to tell them that they did NOTHING to help me.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

[CarolM]

I'm not a writer but one of my friends in the US is, though her stories are mainly based in the Buffyverse. I read a lot of her stories just after she's written them, but I warned her at the start, the fact that she's my friend blinds me to some of the faults in them. I do comment if the plot seems to be moving too slowly, or if I think a bit more backgound or character insight might be useful, but otherwise I just look out for spelling mistakes, grammar and that sort of stuff.
I admit a lot of my queries start "Do you spell/phrase that like that in the US? Sometimes I have to ask what a phrase means, though the flood of US programmes on UK TV screens helps me understand most of what you say.

[Richelle Mead]

Yep.  I have a handful of friends who beta read for me as a I finish my chapters.  It's actually a good motivator to keep writing because if they like it, then they bug me for more.  The thing to keep in mind in those early stages is how much feedback to take seriously.  If all of them have the same critique, then I pay attention.  If one person doesn't like X, someone else doesn't like Y, etc....well, I usually don't alter my course since everyone will always have some sort of small nitpicky thing.

[blgarver]

I gave up on that.  I kept giving stuff I'd written to friends to get opinions and the conversation, no matter how well-read or educated the person, would go like this:

Me: So what did you think?
Them: It was good!
...
...
...
Me: And?
Them: And what?
Me: Care to expound a little more?
Them: What?  I liked it, it was good.
Me: Well, what did you like?
Them: Everything.
Me: Was there anything you didn't like?
Them: Not really.  It was good.
...
Them: What?
Me: Seriously, you're not going to hurt my feelings.  Just tell me honestly what you thought.
Them: I liked it!
...
...
Them: What?
Me: <mumbled> Thanks.

And I just don't have the heart to tell them that they did NOTHING to help me.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

Yeah, this sort of thing is very annoying.  I'm lucky that my friends are writers too, and are all aspiring to authors so they'll tell me straight up if it sucked.  And they have done that several times.  But they also tell me why they thought it sucked and what worked and what didn't.

But I try to stay away from those friends that aren't really close friends...the acquaintance types.  I find that people at work are good for this kind of thing, because I know them well enough to feel comfortable handing them a test chapter, but we don't know each other well enough to worry about hurt feelings. 

[Tasmin21]

I have one friend who edits everything I write paragraph by paragraph as I write it.  She's a high school English teacher, and she's awesome.  (someday, when I can afford to, I'm actually going to pay her)

I also have a select group of other friends that I spring large chunks of completed work on, to get a fresh pair of eyes.  My problem there is that no one reads as fast as I need them to (I have zero patience when waiting for reviews), and when they do, they want to take their sweet time giving me their thoughts on it.  All I truly want is a first look, gut reaction on whether or not this story interests them, and if they would keep reading it if they picked up a book that began that way.  Unfortunately, they seem to be overthinking things.  *le sigh*

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

All I truly want is a first look, gut reaction on whether or not this story interests them, and if they would keep reading it if they picked up a book that began that way.  Unfortunately, they seem to be overthinking things.  *le sigh*

So basically what you're saying is, you and the Abstruse One should swap friends ?

[BobSkull]

I wouldn't know. I almost always keep my writing to myself(which I'm always criticized for by family). Basically the only person I share my writing with is a girl....... friend that I am co-writing with. But other than that I tend to keep it to myself, although before I attempt to get published I will probably have a few friends read it and tell me what they think.

[Velkyn_Faer]

I've a test audience...varies between one and three people. It is good for morale for someone to comment as you write, and also, it's really, really fun to be able to discuss your world with someone and not have them look at you funny.  It's even better if they like one of your characters.  It's also good to have a second pair of eyes look things over so they can point out flaws or comfirm things that you've seen yourself but aren't sure if you want to cut or not, even early on on the story.

I don't have family look my stuff over, and not-like-me friends...meaning, friends I didn't meet through books.  I tend to be very quiet and innocent-looking in real life, and I'm not really sure how they'd take my stories.  They'd look at me considerably differently, I'd think.

A second pair of eyes always helps, because it's new material for them. You know the words should be 'the big dog' but you were in a hurry and wrote 'tehbigdg'. Still, you know how it should be, so your eyes skip over it. Same with it's' (intentionally spelled that way) or any words when you've got the sentence in your head. Like, sentenead (sentence in your head). They'll notice, whereas you might not.

I do not want my family reading my stuff, mostly because of reactions, too. And friends, because I don't want them to lie and say it's good if it absulutely sucks.

It's all about a trusted audience who will do what is best for you. Egos do re-inflate, and you'll be better off if they're honest.

Velkyn

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

A second pair of eyes always helps, because it's new material for them. You know the words should be 'the big dog' but you were in a hurry and wrote 'tehbigdg'.

It's not that worries me, spell-checkers will find that.

It's a secondary character's mother's name being one thing in chapter 3 and something else in chapter 15. Or me being so sure that it's obvious how this particular govvernment works, because of how much I have gone on about it in my notes and in two other vaguely related stories, that I leave out a key bit so it makes no sense to someone who's not read the other two stories.  That kind of thing, a good continuity reader is essential for.

[Velkyn_Faer]

I seem to forget about you guys and your crazy spellcheck. (Doesn't work for me on my computer.)


Ah, true, true. That is very, very essential, then.