weapon advice--writers or not...

[meg_evonne]

Okay, I've a character with a smaller than a bowie knife fighting a ghoul with a scimitar.  Is it possible for such a knife to parry a blow from a scimitar?  My guess with a sword--that would be a no, but a scimitar?  Any chance that I can make this work?

Thanks all...

Oh and best wishes on the Hugo awards tonight, JB!!!!

[Gruud]

The parry would be a definite no. 

But given that the scimitar is a pretty large blade that in most hands (especially in undead hands) is used like a giant meat cleaver, go for a bit of finesse in a different way, such that the ghoul with the scimmy over-commits, etc and winds up a bit off balance, giving the fighter with the dagger an opening to strike ... or shove, or whatever fits best.

[BobForPresident]

There's more than just "my weapon's bigger than yours" at play here.

Do the ghouls in your world possess average strength, or are they more zombie-like in their movements? If they move noticeably slower or with less power than a human, then I would say it's possible. Also, issues like what kind of ground they're on  (how much higher up one is than the other) could make the situation possible.

[Knight_Wanderer]

Sorry, I've trained in edged weapons my entire adult life, and there's no way.  The sheer kinetic energy of the scimitar strike would either knock the knife out of your character's hand immediately, or break half the bones in your character's hand first, thus making him/her drop it.

[BobForPresident]

Sorry, I've trained in edged weapons my entire adult life, and there's no way.  The sheer kinetic energy of the scimitar strike would either knock the knife out of your character's hand immediately, or break half the bones in your character's hand first, thus making him/her drop it.

Assuming, again, that the ghoul's strength is comparable to a human's. Just because he can swing it doesn't mean he can do so with any force.

But, if the ghoul has all the strength of say, your average 12 year old, then said bowie knife isn't going to help in parrying.

[belial.1980]

Maybe the knife wielding character could stab/impale the ghoul's wrist, thereby stopping the blow? It would probably take some fancy footwork as well. Not saying it's realistic, but it ::might:: be plausible depending on the ghoul's and the knife fighter's abilities. Also how girtty/cinematic you want the story to feel.

[Quantus]

A normal block/parry? no, unless as BfP said, the zombie is moving abnormally slow.  This would substantially lessen the kinetic energy of the blow (E_k=M*V^2).  Now if your knife wielder is skilled enough they might be able to step in and catch the wrist of the sword-wielder with the knife, doing so damage that way, thought it may be both more realistic and cinematic if they could anchor it into something (stab it into the tree they are standing next to or some such) rather than take all that force themselves.  But if the knifer is that much faster than the scimmy-guy, then they could probably dodge instead, perhaps with some side-swatting to nudge it a bit as they move.  Again that comes to relative skill levels.   

 Also this is assuming the ghoul gets no supernatural strength, other-wise its more a pure not-a-chance scenario. 

[Shecky]

Smaller than a Bowie knife. Not likely, unless the non-ghoul is VERY fast and strong, and even then, it would be less of a parry and more of a super-fast beating-aside of the blade... and if he's that fast and strong, that's probably the last stroke that ghoul's taking.

Now, if it were a Bowie knife, especially the larger, heavier varieties, then yes. That's pretty much a short sword, and it's very heavily, sturdily made. KA-BAR would fit the bill, too.

[gravesbane]

The way I understand how a parry works you are just redirecting the blade not blocking the blow outright. When I took fencing lessons years ago my instructor said you use the six inches or so closest to the guard of your blade for defence. To illustrate this he had each use a modified blade, which was only six inches, to practice parries. I can't recall his name, but he claimed to have trained several sucessful Olympic fencers.

[Quantus]

The way I understand how a parry works you are just redirecting the blade not blocking the blow outright. When I took fencing lessons years ago my instructor said you use the six inches or so closest to the guard of your blade for defence. To illustrate this he had each use a modified blade, which was only six inches, to practice parries. I can't recall his name, but he claimed to have trained several successful Olympic fencers.

Interesting.   In terms of contact force, fencing is one of the weakest styles, due mostly to the relatively low mass of the sword.

Meg, what type of scimitar are you picturing?  Ive seen everything from a thin curved rapier to thick bladed falchion style be called a scimitar.  Wielded one handed or two?

[Paynesgrey]

A slight deflection, maybe, if owning mad super skills rubbed with luck.  A scimitiar has lots of Lopping Power, with all the mass out there towards the end.  Acts as one hell of a "force multiplier."  Same reason a ghurka knife can lop heads that a longer sword of the same weight couldn't.

[Knight_Wanderer]

The way I understand how a parry works you are just redirecting the blade not blocking the blow outright. When I took fencing lessons years ago my instructor said you use the six inches or so closest to the guard of your blade for defence. To illustrate this he had each use a modified blade, which was only six inches, to practice parries. I can't recall his name, but he claimed to have trained several sucessful Olympic fencers.

Eh . . . sorry if I sound like a jerk, but I don't buy it.  I fenced collegiate, national championships, and then taught collegiate . . . the last 6" of the blade are no doubt the strongest, but actually training to parry with that 6" is foolish.

[jtaylor]

When you have a smaller weapon like a knife fighting a long weapon like a scimitar, footwork is far more important than bladework. If you are using the knife, and are staying out at a range of 2-4 feet where the scimitar wielder can make a solid strike you would be a fool to try to parry it on the swing. The key is to rapidly close into in-fighting range where you can trip up your opponent, and keep them from effectively using their weapon while you have room to use your smaller one. You can do this by circling your opponent so they have to turn before they can strike, or by staying far back so they have to rush to strike, and then close quickly to get inside of their range when they make their move.
You need to be constantly aware of where the opponent's blade is and not be there when it is about to hit you.

You CAN redirect a large blade with a smaller one, but it is very difficult, and you have to be strong, fast, and precise to do it. On the other hand, nothing gives you motivation like a 2 and half feet of sharp steel coming at you very fast. 

[meg_evonne]

great input.  Yes, it's the larger, normally two handed, scimitar that I'm using.  Although I still hold out hope that Gravesbane is correct, I realized that the character with the small knife is not a trained fighter and a novice.  Further as I worked the scene, it's more like a continuous barrage of attacks and the likelihood of success - even with the first being lucky--it just isn't going to work.  The ghoul is slower, but only marginally so vs a character who's magic has increased her speed and agility AND the ghoul's other hand is in use, so the two handed weapon would be wielded by one hand only.

Adding up those elements--I still came down on the side that this character isn't going to save herself with fancy footwork and a sudden athletic ability to fight.

Instead, I fell back on an idea that this knife that possesses an ancient history of magic use might have a mystical imprint that is actually larger than its physical attributes.  I ended up with the character testing that out successfully before entering the battle with the ghoul.  Hopefully, it doesn't come out as contrived and a miracle rescue at the point of need.  Headaches.  The knife is billed as able to cut through magic and time.  It isn't meant to be used offensively, and only in dire circumstances as a defensive weapon.

Thank you all for an intelligent discussion of these two weapons. If what I've done doesn't work, then I'll be back here reading your comments again.

Once more--thank you!

[jtaylor]

One question on the knife: Since you are specifying that the knife is designed for defense, does it have a basket hilt or an oversize guard? If so that changes things.  A basket hilt is almost a small shield, and you can punch block another hand weapon with one rather easily without using the blade at all.