Making Generic Magic more Appealing

[SlimMason]

I’m not much of a writer, as I hardly ever write, but I like to brainstorm ideas as a hobby. I don’t read as many fantasy books as I should. I imagine that generic magic systems are generic because many of the titles I choose not to read use these generic systems. The other extreme is magic systems so good I can’t Imagine magic working any other way. (the Dresden Files for example – thank you Jim.)

I would like to write in an adventure-laden magical setting, but I don’t see much need to stray from the norm. I’m just mussing on what I could do as an author to take a mostly generic system, and spice it up and give it its own identity.

A general rule about magic in my musings is that it is used to create rather than destroy. Wizards use their power to build things. Spellcraft is often referred to as building. Magic usually requires several people to work together to do anything big. (The obvious exceptions are the wizards too powerful to be main characters. i.e. Senior Council/White Council Wizards.)

So, any advice to help make a magic system stand out a little without being ground-breaking? and how to fairly use good ideas from books I love (like Dresden Files) without writing clones?

[daylightdreamer]

Well, my first thing is I like the whole magic to create not magic to destroy thing. I think you can create an interesting magic system just using that as a base concept. If that's the case, are there other forms of supernatural what-have you that is basically the flip side of the coin? I'm big on balanced forced and all of that, but I think if you're going to go with this using magic to create thing you're going to need to fully explore what all that means and set up some rules for it. What all do you want magic to be able to accomplish. What do you mean by create? Can you use spellcraft to completely build something from nothing but energy and will then? Would creating a fire column like we see Harry do fall under "create" as you're "creating" fire, even though the intent of the fire might be to destroy?

I think that's some food for thought in that department. As far as adding spice and so such...I generally look at a lot of mythology and metaphysics when I'm figuring out the nuts and bolts of magic. I'm also a neopagan, though, so I have a lot of references for energy channeling and all of that just kind of laying around my apartment. You could draw from things like the old Greek version of the elements and how everything is made from Earth, Fire, Wind, Water (and Spirit, too possibly) and find a way to incorporate that. There are a lot of sources, but that's somewhere to start with that.

And as far as the clones thing...speaking as an English major, really everything's been done before. It's not a good idea to blatantly rip other people off, but at least when I do stuff like this I usually start with a "Hm. I think I'd like my magic to work kind of like it does in this book, but I want to also work in this idea. And I really don't like this bit, or it doesn't work for what I want to do, so I'm going to get rid of that...and replace it with this...and then I like this idea from this other thing I read, so maybe I can do something like that..." Eventually you get to a point where you can still see influences from other sources, but you can't look at one specific source and go "You totally copied that!" *shrug* My advice there would be to give it time to cook in your own head. You'll put your own spin on everything without even realizing you're doing it, most likely.

I hope this helps some.

[seekmore]

I’m not much of a writer, as I hardly ever write, but I like to brainstorm ideas as a hobby. I don’t read as many fantasy books as I should. I imagine that generic magic systems are generic because many of the titles I choose not to read use these generic systems. The other extreme is magic systems so good I can’t Imagine magic working any other way. (the Dresden Files for example – thank you Jim.)

I would like to write in an adventure-laden magical setting, but I don’t see much need to stray from the norm. I’m just mussing on what I could do as an author to take a mostly generic system, and spice it up and give it its own identity.

A general rule about magic in my musings is that it is used to create rather than destroy. Wizards use their power to build things. Spellcraft is often referred to as building. Magic usually requires several people to work together to do anything big. (The obvious exceptions are the wizards too powerful to be main characters. i.e. Senior Council/White Council Wizards.)

So, any advice to help make a magic system stand out a little without being ground-breaking? and how to fairly use good ideas from books I love (like Dresden Files) without writing clones?

Really all I can tell you to do is examine the magic systems you like and cobble something together, and then add your own rules to it.

[SlimMason]

Can you use spellcraft to completely build something from nothing but energy and will then? Would creating a fire column like we see Harry do fall under "create" as you're "creating" fire, even though the intent of the fire might be to destroy?

You can't build buildings out of magic alone. You can build metaphysical contructs (enchantments, etc.) out of magic.

*eye_roll* Fire. It is always so easy to do. Well, I haven't settled on how to limit Fire, but here's what I'm thinking: State of mind is important to magic. "Pre-Rituals" are offen necessary to do cast magic. I can't imagine Fire not being an easy spell to cast (energy to energy), but perhaps Fire is limmited to those who have prepared in advance to use it. This preperation would prevent the flame-thrower from casting other spells and affect his sate of mind. (flame-throwers would be prone to rash, passionate decisions while using that type of magic.)

Daylight: Your comments were helpful. I'm Comming up with some ideas for the magic, and the world around it.

[Leonsagara]

You can't build buildings out of magic alone. You can build metaphysical contructs (enchantments, etc.) out of magic.

*eye_roll* Fire. It is always so easy to do. Well, I haven't settled on how to limit Fire, but here's what I'm thinking: State of mind is important to magic. "Pre-Rituals" are offen necessary to do cast magic. I can't imagine Fire not being an easy spell to cast (energy to energy), but perhaps Fire is limmited to those who have prepared in advance to use it. This preperation would prevent the flame-thrower from casting other spells and affect his sate of mind. (flame-throwers would be prone to rash, passionate decisions while using that type of magic.)

Daylight: Your comments were helpful. I'm Comming up with some ideas for the magic, and the world around it.

Going off what you said, maybe the different elements can only be used in certain states of mind or by people with certain personality types.  Like you said, fire could only be cast in a passionate frame of mind or by a hot-headed, zealous person.  Earth when you're feeling stubborn or inflexible, or by a person who tends to be stubborn, but is someone you can always rely on.  Etc, etc.

[The Corvidian]

Crutches and batteries, that is my take on magic.

[Lanodantheon]

Writing a totally 100% original magic system would be an act of brilliance. One of the reasons "Standard" magic systems are so common is the same reason MMORPGs and the like based on Tolkienesque fantasy are so common: the style is easy to grasp. Magic in particular is drawn from mythology and ideology from all over the world and the more common the better. Talking about a magic system that only builds and not destroy relates it to the idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only redirected.

Also, all magic systems are related to the ideology of the work. For example, a magic system that contains inherent Light Sides and Dark Sides reflect the author's belief that there are self-evident forces of Good and Evil in the world. The idea that magic comes from life also reflect the belief that life itself is sacred and powerful. Magic that comes from Gods and/or Spirits reinforces the belief that believing in and worshiping such things gives you power. The list of examples goes on.

Your magic system can look like whatever you wish it to be. How easy something is to do magically is only limited to how difficult you want it to be. Fire could be the easiest spell in the world while in mine the easiest could be nuclear fission.

One way to make magic fresh, yet familiar is to take an old system and stand it on its ear. Depending on the story told this could end up in a very humorous or moving situation. For example: say you are playing with the idea of Summoning Angels/Spirits for your magic system(Just an example). In most stories with this kind of magic(I think) the more favors you want the Angels/Spirits, the more sacrifices they need.
You could turn this on it's ear quite easily for either comedic or moving effect:

For moving effect you could look at Summoning as more like taking away the free will of these creatures. The more time they spend answering their summoner's calls, the more time they are away from home and their free will is taken from them.

For comedic effect, you could depict summoning as the worst Joe-Job on the planet. The Angel/Spirit is trying to get some sleep in his night cap when BAM! the Summoner summons him and he has to leave his wife and 2.5 kids in the dead of night AGAIN to answer the call of some b@$%&*# sorcerer who can't do anything on his own without calling somebody in the middle of the night on another plane of existence. And now from some reason I could see that scene in my head played by Jason Lee....

[OZ]

Have you read any Dave Duncan? He is far from my favorite author. As a matter of fact he only wrote one series that I really enjoyed but he comes up with some of the most creative magic systems that I have read. I sometimes skim even his books that I don't like just because I am fascinated by how magic works in most of his worlds.

The first thing that I try to figure out when I'm developing a magic system is the base. Is it a spiritual system that draws it's powers from spirits or demons or gods ( like David Eddings Begariad) or is magic more like science? Is it something requiring great intellect and years of study. Is it something inherited like Harry Potter or the x-men (yes I said the x-men's powers are magical although they are considered scientific within their own universe ) or does it draw from Nature? Maybe a combination of the above elements. Once I figure a base for magic the other components usuallly fall into place.

[seekmore]

The first thing that I try to figure out when I'm developing a magic system is the base. Is it a spiritual system that draws it's powers from spirits or demons or gods ( like David Eddings Begariad) or is magic more like science? Is it something requiring great intellect and years of study. Is it something inherited like Harry Potter or the x-men (yes I said the x-men's powers are magical although they are considered scientific within their own universe ) or does it draw from Nature? Maybe a combination of the above elements. Once I figure a base for magic the other components usuallly fall into place.

Why do the messy equating mutate powers with magic when there plenty of literal magic running rampant through the X-Men Universe.

[SlimMason]

Juggernaught gets his powers from a magic stone. Perhaps it is the Blarney Stone since Mr. Juggernaut is such an eloquent speaker.

The trap I fall into is details. The detail that has snared me today is wheather magic predates humans or not. Was there a spirt realm before hummans came along? A lot of magical creatures are based in myth and folklore. Perhapes they caused myth and folklore, or perhaps they where formed from the collecective unconcience of the humans that believe in them. It sounds like an important question, but I know the truth... IT'S A TRAP!

I can't deside on a setting, or if the magic is a secret or not.

[seekmore]

Juggernaught gets his powers from a magic stone. Perhaps it is the Blarney Stone since Mr. Juggernaut is such an eloquent speaker.

The trap I fall into is details. The detail that has snared me today is wheather magic predates humans or not. Was there a spirt realm before hummans came along? A lot of magical creatures are based in myth and folklore. Perhapes they caused myth and folklore, or perhaps they where formed from the collecective unconcience of the humans that believe in them. It sounds like an important question, but I know the truth... IT'S A TRAP!

I can't deside on a setting, or if the magic is a secret or not.

Yeah, isn't answering all of these big questions fun?

[The Corvidian]

Why not use the idea of magic being able to manipulate the Platonic Realm? (I don't think this is a new idea, but alot of authors don't come out and say that is the main basis of their magic.)

[belial.1980]

Juggernaught gets his powers from a magic stone. Perhaps it is the Blarney Stone since Mr. Juggernaut is such an eloquent speaker.

The trap I fall into is details. The detail that has snared me today is wheather magic predates humans or not. Was there a spirt realm before hummans came along? A lot of magical creatures are based in myth and folklore. Perhapes they caused myth and folklore, or perhaps they where formed from the collecective unconcience of the humans that believe in them. It sounds like an important question, but I know the truth... IT'S A TRAP!

I can't deside on a setting, or if the magic is a secret or not.

Deciding on whether or not the spirit realm predates humankind is a matter of taste, I suppose. Depends on what kind of tone you're going for. Most writers that I've read have gone with the notion that magic is ancient and that spirits/angels/demons/gods/great old ones/etc. existed for a long, long time before people.

I think it'd be interesting to see something different, as you suggested. If humankind was the source of the spirit realm then it'd be a very recent invention in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps there's an immaterial realm that exists alongside the material realm that's been there since creation started, but humankind has somehow been been able to tap into it (or perhaps just a small part of it, or a pool that's somehow affixed to earth...other beings on different worlds might have their own spirit realms different from ours) and inadvertatly formed the spirit world with their beliefs or sunconscious psychic influence or some such.

As for setting, I recommend taking some time to just jot down ideas. Shut off the inner editor and just write down ideas. Once you've done that for awhile, take the ones you like best and run with them. Whether or not magic is secret seems like a finer point that could probably wait till you've figured out setting and gotten some character sketches working in your mind. The trick is to just write. Then write some more.

Good luck.

[Flashand]

IMHO, i believe that you are looking at somthing like. I used a limb to create a park, or forest. Or here is a stone it took fourty of us to build a castle?

If this is correct than you might want to try the original dragon lance series to see if you can pick up anything that might help. This is not an unheard of concept although it is hard to deploy.

1) if you can create something with it you can destroy it with it as well. ie, rods staves and wands. Armor and weapons, and occasionally from the powerful come wizards towers and the like.

2) If you can only use it to create, what does one do with all the magically reinforced buildings when the population overgrows the city?

[RangerSG]

Juggernaught gets his powers from a magic stone. Perhaps it is the Blarney Stone since Mr. Juggernaut is such an eloquent speaker.

The trap I fall into is details. The detail that has snared me today is wheather magic predates humans or not. Was there a spirt realm before hummans came along? A lot of magical creatures are based in myth and folklore. Perhapes they caused myth and folklore, or perhaps they where formed from the collecective unconcience of the humans that believe in them. It sounds like an important question, but I know the truth... IT'S A TRAP!

I can't deside on a setting, or if the magic is a secret or not.

To me that's why it's important to decide on the nature of the world first, then the nature of magic. Is this a world that has an "open door" to other realities/realms. If so, then it's logical that magic flows by those paths. If not, then magic likely comes from within the world and/or it's characters.

And I designed a base magic system once where sorcery was aspected to the key part of the character's nature. Rituals and alchemy and such could be done by anyone who believed in them additionally. But that was how sorcery worked. It was a fascinating system. Now if I can just figure a story for that world. *snickers*