A Question for the DFRPG Authors, and current FATE 3.0 players.

[Gilesth]

So, I've been reading through the rules for FATE 2.0 and Spirit of the Century (the first FATE 3.0 installment) and I have a question about skills.

In SotC, any skill that has not been "purchased" by skill points apparently defaults to Mediocre (or 0 modifier), and then if a skill point has been spent, it goes up to Average (or +1).  My question is, why bother putting -1 or -2 on the skill ladder?

Let me expand my thought for you with an example.  If I have a character who has never trained with a gun, then I am Mediocre with that skill.  But I want to shoot someone.  For the purpose playing the game, I as a player, or even a GM, don't need to know that if I roll enough "-" on my dice to take me below zero, I fail.  The negative part of the ladder doesn't seem to be important as a STARTING point, or even a point of reference for my skills.

So, why is the negative side of the ladder even mentioned?  I haven't read anything that answers that question in the SotC book, and I can't find anything in FATE 2.0, either.

I was also wondering about Stress for the characters.  I haven't seen Stress mentioned anywhere in the character creation chapters of either system book, and to me, that seems like it would be really important information to have in that chapter.  I understand that this isn't a number crunching system, but all of my players, when I GM, are going to need that information in that chapter, since they won't be reading through the entire book before they begin playing.  Is that something that you plan on adding to the Character Creation chapter in DFRPG?

In my opinion, the CC Chapter would be able to stand alone as a pamphlet (without listing skills, of course) that any player could read through and create their PC on their own without having to read the rule book until they get to the gaming location where I have a copy available for them.  (And let's face it, not everyone can afford to buy a copy of the book, which is why I'm going to buy three).

[iago]

So, I've been reading through the rules for FATE 2.0 and Spirit of the Century (the first FATE 3.0 installment) and I have a question about skills.

In SotC, any skill that has not been "purchased" by skill points apparently defaults to Mediocre (or 0 modifier), and then if a skill point has been spent, it goes up to Average (or +1).  My question is, why bother putting -1 or -2 on the skill ladder?

When you roll a -4 on a 4DF and use it to modify your Mediocre skill, what adjective do you use to describe the -4 result?

That's why the negative numbers are on the ladder.

[iago]

I was also wondering about Stress for the characters.  I haven't seen Stress mentioned anywhere in the character creation chapters of either system book, and to me, that seems like it would be really important information to have in that chapter.  I understand that this isn't a number crunching system, but all of my players, when I GM, are going to need that information in that chapter, since they won't be reading through the entire book before they begin playing.  Is that something that you plan on adding to the Character Creation chapter in DFRPG?

They should certainly be reading the details about the skills they're selecting, as that's part of character creation, and skills are where the idea of stress capacity first gets touched on. That said, I'll take this under advisement.

In my opinion, the CC Chapter would be able to stand alone as a pamphlet (without listing skills, of course) that any player could read through and create their PC on their own without having to read the rule book until they get to the gaming location where I have a copy available for them.  (And let's face it, not everyone can afford to buy a copy of the book, which is why I'm going to buy three).

That's impossible in our game, sorry. You need to know what stunts do. There's a chapter for that. You need to know what the powers you're selecting can do. There's a chapter for that.  Saying folks should be able to create a character without seeing the details of what they're buying is pretty ridiculous.

[Gilesth]

Thank you so much   I'm definitely looking forward this game, and whatever you decide to do, I'm sure it will be great.

[Gilesth]

Oh, as far as skills and the ladder are concerned, are there going to be any skills that begin at a negative if they are untrained?  Like Performance, for example.  I've spent a point training the skill, so obviously I'm Average or higher, but some things, like playing a guitar, would be worse than Mediocre if they're untrained.  I mean, if a Chlorofiend (sp?) wanted to smash me with a fighting skill, fine, but what if he's accepted a Break Dance challenge?  Is he going to be able to use a Performance, untrained, with no penalty, or should he have to use the untrained skill at a higher penalty?

I know some things can be done with only no penalty if you don't know how to do them, like driving a car through narrow streets at high speed.  No problem without training the skill, in theory, but Surgery would be a lot more difficult.  Is there going to be any kind of rule that mentions this with particular skills?  Or will it be left up to the GM?  I, as a GM, of course, don't mind "doing" that to my players, as long as the text backs me up when I say that it's up to my discretion.

One last thought, I think, in regards to Stress in the skills chapter.  I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere in the intro of that chapter, only in the skills that modify stress, which is why I brought it up in the first post.  What if, for some incredibly odd reason, none of my players take skills that modify their stress?  I guess what I'm really asking in this thread, as far as stress is concerned, is; will there be a paragraph or two that explains stress in more detail?  As far as I'm concerned, that would help me out as a consumer, regardless of where it's located in the book.

Again, thanks for the attention you guys have been putting in to this book.  I'm really looking forward to it!

[iago]

Oh, as far as skills and the ladder are concerned, are there going to be any skills that begin at a negative if they are untrained?  Like Performance, for example.  I've spent a point training the skill, so obviously I'm Average or higher, but some things, like playing a guitar, would be worse than Mediocre if they're untrained.  I mean, if a Chlorofiend (sp?) wanted to smash me with a fighting skill, fine, but what if he's accepted a Break Dance challenge?  Is he going to be able to use a Performance, untrained, with no penalty, or should he have to use the untrained skill at a higher penalty?

That's not really the way of things in our system. We like to assume that the baseline is that people are generally competent.  If you want to "start out incompetent" at something, that's actually an interesting character feature, and would be reflected in an aspect ala, "Tin Ear For Music".

I know some things can be done with only no penalty if you don't know how to do them, like driving a car through narrow streets at high speed.  No problem without training the skill, in theory, but Surgery would be a lot more difficult.

Sure, but surgery's an example of something that would have a very high difficulty -- it's not even easy for someone *trained* in the appropriate skill, unless they're highly trained and (likely) have a stunt or two indicating the specialization and (moreover) have access to proper tools & environment for the job.

One last thought, I think, in regards to Stress in the skills chapter.  I couldn't see it mentioned anywhere in the intro of that chapter, only in the skills that modify stress, which is why I brought it up in the first post.  What if, for some incredibly odd reason, none of my players take skills that modify their stress?  I guess what I'm really asking in this thread, as far as stress is concerned, is; will there be a paragraph or two that explains stress in more detail?

Stress will get covered in the skills chapter and in some detail in the "playing the game" chapter (which covers fighting & consequences, among other things).

[Gilesth]

Sweet!  See, this is just another reason I'm plugging this game so much...you guys actually SUPPORT your players and answer their ignorant questions   If only everyone would explain the system the way you do, rather than the obligatory, "this is our system, this is how it works.  Don't question why, just DO IT!"

Now I understand why the ladder is the way it is, and I can continue planning my campaign for when this system is released (though I may take the FATE 2.0 rules to begin a test with my players).

[TheMouse]

Now I understand why the ladder is the way it is, and I can continue planning my campaign for when this system is released (though I may take the FATE 2.0 rules to begin a test with my players).

I'd suggest going with 3rd if for no better reason than the improvements made to Aspects. They're lots of fun in play.