Frustrated Question on Morality and denied characater concepts in Dresden RPG

[Dan from Chicago]

It's a broadsword more than a scalpel when it comes to applying the perspective.

Lily has a LOT of stuff she CAN'T do, because she's now constrained by the pacts of Summer.

As a Summer Knight, Fix is actually still mortal, and technically retains some freedom of choice.  There being SOME free will available to the Knights is part of the point of why they exist -- it enables them to act OUTSIDE their nature, in the Courts' interests, in theory.

Technically speaking though, isn't Lily still Mortal as well? I seem to recall that she didn't choose to be fae, but became Summer Lady anyways due to being Summer Knight at the time.

Again, I'm not arguing that Summer Lady should be a playable character, just drawing on the books.

She gave Dresden Summer Fire to use in Winter's territory, summoned Maeve when she couldn't directly help Harry; she works hard to get around the rules she's operating under. Fix doesn't seem to be any less constrained. He had to threaten Harry in Small Favor in order to warn him. Now, at least one Summer minion thought that Summer's interests were not being well served(Gruff), and Fix was still pretty heavily bound, so his 'mortal' aspect doesn't seem to give him much more breathing room than Lily has.

[iago]

Based on my conversations with Jim, Lily becoming the Summer Lady was essentially the Choice, made in favor of fae -- just as Fix's assuming the Summer Knight mantle was a confirmation of mortality.

[Dan from Chicago]

Based on my conversations with Jim, Lily becoming the Summer Lady was essentially the Choice, made in favor of fae -- just as Fix's assuming the Summer Knight mantle was a confirmation of mortality.

Boo, pulling out the trump card 'I have a personal relationship with the author' ... name dropping is so 2008

jk

[hkjakkie]

I just wanted to jump in here for a minute. The way I understand is based on the
The Dresden Files. So the characters are described as the are in the books.
This RPG is also going to be a companion guide( if that is what it is called)
to the books. That is why I want the game.
Once you buy the game I am sure you will be able to play the game the way you
want to.

[Dan from Chicago]

I just wanted to jump in here for a minute. The way I understand is based on the
The Dresden Files. So the characters are described as the are in the books.
This RPG is also going to be a companion guide( if that is what it is called)
to the books. That is why I want the game.
Once you buy the game I am sure you will be able to play the game the way you
want to.

I know, I was just pointing out something that might not be in line with the books(obviously Mr Butcher has the final say, since it's his stuff). As I've said multiple times, I don't think Summer Lady should be a player character, at least under most circumstances. I don't think the President of the United States would be a good player character either.

I'm not of the opinion that the RPG should have to be 100% in line with the books. I mean, if it is and it all works optimally that's bonus, but most books have to be changed to turn them into decent movies(or TV shows), and RPGs have different needs then books do.

[Shecky]

Boo, pulling out the trump card 'I have a personal relationship with the author' ... name dropping is so 2008

jk

*squinteye* We don't much cotton to not respectin' tradition in these here parts. *spits in spitoon* Even when the tradition ain't more'n a year old. *squints more*

[iago]

I know, I was just pointing out something that might not be in line with the books(obviously Mr Butcher has the final say, since it's his stuff). As I've said multiple times, I don't think Summer Lady should be a player character, at least under most circumstances. I don't think the President of the United States would be a good player character either.

I'm not of the opinion that the RPG should have to be 100% in line with the books. I mean, if it is and it all works optimally that's bonus, but most books have to be changed to turn them into decent movies(or TV shows), and RPGs have different needs then books do.

Yep. We actually don't disagree on that front.  We're just looking to do a "best fit" with the books when possible.

[TheMouse]

I'm not sure that I have a whole lot to add to this topic, except that I think it's a really important one for understanding how the game interacts with the setting.

The whole power versus freedom thing has already been brought up. One aspect of that which drives that home for me is that supernatural power in the Dresdenverse makes one less human. Freedom to choose seems to be tightly tied together with the human condition, while supernatural beings tend to fall into specific patterns. Once the supernatural overcomes the human, an individual falls into those patterns as well.

This is why a Red Court vampire isn't a good PC, but an infected could be. When the infected gives in and drinks blood, it isn't that the act is evil. It's that the act gives into the supernatural side of the being, and it takes over. So you get characters like Bianca who are totally bound  by their nature but retain just enough humanity to regret that they can't do anything about it.

[Noey]

I think it all depends on the players in the end. If a person wanted to run a story with a rainbow of playable vampire PCs, then they could. The book is just saying that to their knowledge and their playtesting, this is the optimal way they've found to play the game. Not necessarily the only way. So, it doesn't mean you can't tinker with it in your game to do things your way if it'll result in a more enjoyable game to your personal preference. The book won't emit an electric shock if you try to do things differently. At least I hope not ....

*eyes her bookshelf warily*

[Shecky]

The OP seems to be of the opinion that house rules are an insult to the author.

[Noey]

Nevermind me, then. I prefer not to understand things. It's not confusion, just abstract interpretation.

[iago]

I'm not sure that I have a whole lot to add to this topic, except that I think it's a really important one for understanding how the game interacts with the setting.

The whole power versus freedom thing has already been brought up. One aspect of that which drives that home for me is that supernatural power in the Dresdenverse makes one less human. Freedom to choose seems to be tightly tied together with the human condition, while supernatural beings tend to fall into specific patterns. Once the supernatural overcomes the human, an individual falls into those patterns as well.

This is why a Red Court vampire isn't a good PC, but an infected could be. When the infected gives in and drinks blood, it isn't that the act is evil. It's that the act gives into the supernatural side of the being, and it takes over. So you get characters like Bianca who are totally bound  by their nature but retain just enough humanity to regret that they can't do anything about it.

Yep! You're right on target, there.

[Atomsk]

Now how would the whole Power vs Freedom concept take into account something(?) like a Scion? If they're already half-human, and half-whatever; is there really a chance of them embracing their instincts and loosing their free will?

[iago]

Now how would the whole Power vs Freedom concept take into account something(?) like a Scion? If they're already half-human, and half-whatever; is there really a chance of them embracing their instincts and loosing their free will?

I don't see any incompatibility there (even a pure human can take on so much that they become monstrous, a slave to their nature -- I tend to regard Marcone as playing pretty close to that threshold). But it sounds like you do see an incompatibility.  What is it?

[Jaroslav]

I tend to regard Marcone as playing pretty close to that threshold.

I can't see Marcone as having a positive refresh. Especially with his soul gaze describing his personality as being like that of a tiger. That sounds like someone controlled by their own nature to me.