&%#ing Death Curses.

[Harlan Quinn]

How are you going to implement these in games?   You are sure to have player characters fighting against NPC wizards, so how are you going to keep curses a real threat without ruining game play for the cursed players?
 
How much "power" does a death curse have?   Can they warp reality on a major scale?  Example:The curse erases the memory/records of a person's existence from the world.  Or is it more limited?  Example:For each day that passes, the cursed ages one year.
 
Or is it a matter of the power level of the cursing wizard?

[iago]

We're working on it, but your level of apparent stress about them is far out of proportion with the size of the problem.  We have several ways we could address it, and most of them will be easy and likely to create something that's fun for the player rather than "ruinous".

[skakid]

Unless there is an incredibly perfect method to deal with these provided by the designers (which no doubt there will be).  I as a GM will negotiate the effects with a player.
Death doesn't happen all that much in my campaigns and when it does it's usually a session stopper.  That would give the player and I an option to negotiate, what I would deem an appropriate level of power for his character to have unleashed on a foe. 

You'll note that Death Curses can't always kill an enemy so I might prevent the death of a major villian, but if there has been a particularly nasty henchman or "2nd in charge" that the player would want to unleash their curse on I'd most certainly allow that. 

From what I've seen of SotC it seems as if the ability to negotiate story elements will be important.

[Matrix Refugee (formerly Morraeon)]

You'll note that Death Curses can't always kill an enemy so I might prevent the death of a major villian, but if there has been a particularly nasty henchman or "2nd in charge" that the player would want to unleash their curse on I'd most certainly allow that. 

Mm, think of Harry's mother putting the death curse on Raith... talk about a fate worse than death, ow. That and unless there's a "perma-death" for the character, the death curse might be a moot point.

[ludomaniac]

How much "power" does a death curse have?   Can they warp reality on a major scale?  Example:The curse erases the memory/records of a person's existence from the world.  Or is it more limited?  Example:For each day that passes, the cursed ages one year.

Good Lord, man, what kind of gamemaster do you have?  What terrible things has he done to you?  "OK Harlan, I want you to point to the places on the dolly where the bad man touched your character..." 

[Harlan Quinn]

That's what I was asking about, how do you keep things in a measured response during game play?  I assume that with cursed NPC's you can really cook up some nasty ideas, but what's the proper balance for PC's?
 
And if I was rude by using the word "ruin", please accept my apologies, it wasn't my intent.

[skakid]

Mm, think of Harry's mother putting the death curse on Raith... talk about a fate worse than death, ow. That and unless there's a "perma-death" for the character, the death curse might be a moot point.

Exactly.  That's the type of thing that would probably get an auto stamp of approval by me, because it's so creative.

[Harlan Quinn]

Mm, think of Harry's mother putting the death curse on Raith... talk about a fate worse than death, ow. That and unless there's a "perma-death" for the character, the death curse might be a moot point.

That's one of things I was thinking about: fates worth than death.
 
Example:An cursed NPC called "The Monk"
 
Back in 1592, a mad cleric kills a wizard for possessing knowledge of the "Dark Arts"   The wizard's death curse is that the cleric will not be able to die until he learns all the knowledge of mankind.
 
My questions are as follows:
 
1. Would a death curse keep him alive until he learns everything?   The Monk trips down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck.   Does the curse reanimate him?   Plus, is his neck still broken or is it healed?
 
2. Knowledge is constantly expanding - What determines how this or other curses are fufilled?   Would the Monk still be alive in 2009? ( I understand he would be by GM fiat, but am curious how it would be explained in game terms.)
 

[skakid]

wow. . . that's an awesome game idea!

I'd think it be a crazy powerful wizard that cleric ganked, but since it's happening to an NPC I'd just deal with it as either a template change, (similar to the way a Changeling would go to either full fae or full human) if a process exists or I'd roll a new sheet for the NPC and trash the old one.

1.  I'd deal with him the way they have other immortals.  If he breaks his neck I'd have him stay alive, but have the neck broken for an indeterminate ammount of time, but it would eventually heal. 

(click to show/hide)

Similar to Harry's hand

2.  I'd rule it based on a couple of things, how specific the cursing wizard got as to when that curse is fufilled (think the Wish spell from D&D, but limited based off the cursing wizard's power).  Would he still be alive?  In my mind he would, because that's too good of an adventure idea to give up!

[cranialspasm]

That's one of things I was thinking about: fates worth than death.
 
Example:An cursed NPC called "The Monk"
 
Back in 1592, a mad cleric kills a wizard for possessing knowledge of the "Dark Arts"   The wizard's death curse is that the cleric will not be able to die until he learns all the knowledge of mankind.
 
My questions are as follows:
 
1. Would a death curse keep him alive until he learns everything?   The Monk trips down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck.   Does the curse reanimate him?   Plus, is his neck still broken or is it healed?
 
2. Knowledge is constantly expanding - What determines how this or other curses are fufilled?   Would the Monk still be alive in 2009? ( I understand he would be by GM fiat, but am curious how it would be explained in game terms.)
 

That's definitely an interesting idea, but if the wizard is that powerful, how did the Monk/Cleric end up killling him?

That death curse would be ideal for a mad cleric. He'd be able to exist and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting world. No matter how horrible the wizard, there is no way they would ever want their killer to be alive forever.

Also, does he age? Does it cap off somewhere or is he still spry and young. You're giving the cleric the ability to take out anyone he believes is bad, in his skewed brainpan. He could've been the catalyst in the Salem witch trials. No wizard would want something like that for their kind.

In the show, Bob was cursed to live in his own skull forever because of his law breakings. While this is an interesting take on the subject, what would that purpose be for the one putting him there?

Maybe a better curse would be to trap him in the veil between reality and the nevernever. Unable to cross into either, he is forced to observe each side.

Sorry... I got on a rant. Would that be a player character, or an NPC? 'Cause I'm of the mindset that the GM gets a lil bit of creative freedom.

I have done nothing to offer any insight at all... Have I? No.

Okay!

[skakid]

In the show, Bob was cursed to live in his own skull forever because of his law breakings.

Hehe Great idea.  Imprison the cleric in the skull of the cursing Wizard, but only upon the death of the cleric

[Harlan Quinn]

That's definitely an interesting idea, but if the wizard is that powerful, how did the Monk/Cleric end up killling him?

That death curse would be ideal for a mad cleric. He'd be able to exist and wreak havoc on an unsuspecting world. No matter how horrible the wizard, there is no way they would ever want their killer to be alive forever.

Also, does he age? Does it cap off somewhere or is he still spry and young. You're giving the cleric the ability to take out anyone he believes is bad, in his skewed brainpan. He could've been the catalyst in the Salem witch trials. No wizard would want something like that for their kind.

Maybe a better curse would be to trap him in the veil between reality and the nevernever. Unable to cross into either, he is forced to observe each side.

How does he kill him?   In books, we learn that wizards can die the same way other people can, it's just that their magic affords them more options to rescue themselves. 

The cleric could have used poison (slipping it the wizard's drink, stabbing him with a dagger coated with it, or perhaps in a gaseous form).  Perhaps, he had minions who wore the wizard down before he slipped in to deliver the final strike.    Or perhaps an old favorite, he captured the wizard while asleep and had him burned at the stake.    It's very possible that a mundane individual can kill a wizard.   The cleric is crazy not stupid.   
 
As for aging, that's also one of my questions.   Would a curse keep him young ?   If you go with the true idea of a curse, it would not keep him young, it would keep him alive with all the problems of aging.   It also has to be considered how passive or active a curse could be.   A curse that would require learning all the knowledge of mankind would demand constant research of EVERYTHING!   Go to an encylopedia and open to the science section and see how many different branches there are and then do the same with arts, etc.    To this mix, add an addiction that makes coccaine seem like a sweet tooth, this curse becomes very sinister and tragic .    Not to mention, A cleric who is forced to live beyond his normal span is denied entrance to Heaven.  (Although, the Monk is denied this due to his actions that started the curse in the first place.)
 
As for his place in a game, the Monk would either be an NPC who could be questioned for esoteric answers or a truly formidable villain with the knowledge of ages to use against the heroes.

[cranialspasm]

Hehe Great idea.  Imprison the cleric in the skull of the cursing Wizard, but only upon the death of the cleric

Or to really piss him off, implant the Wizard's consciousness in the skull of the Cleric, kinda like a denarian deal. And he lives forever. *cackle* How much would that suck, to have someone that you killed just rolling around in your brain? not that I've killed many people... Or any...

[Csmythe]

I think if I was going to fire that off as a death curse I would simply curse the cleric to wander the world until he had learned "the Truth." That way you avoid the ever expanding knowledge base of mankind and get to force the character to never know if what he has learned is the final truth or if something he has already learned is simply incorrect so he has to constantly reexamine everything he knows as well. Also I like tossing in the wander there so he never has a chance to set up shop and really become a danger to anyone.

Gotta say had I been that cleric who recieved the curse posted by Harlan Quinn I would have one of my followers dig up a dozen or so mathmatical formulas or other facts and seal them up, far away from me. I doubt I would spend much time in the quest for knowledge in this case since I could use my new immortality to hunt evil for all time.

[Harlan Quinn]

I think if I was going to fire that off as a death curse I would simply curse the cleric to wander the world until he had learned "the Truth." That way you avoid the ever expanding knowledge base of mankind and get to force the character to never know if what he has learned is the final truth or if something he has already learned is simply incorrect so he has to constantly reexamine everything he knows as well. Also I like tossing in the wander there so he never has a chance to set up shop and really become a danger to anyone.

Gotta say had I been that cleric who recieved the curse posted by Harlan Quinn I would have one of my followers dig up a dozen or so mathmatical formulas or other facts and seal them up, far away from me. I doubt I would spend much time in the quest for knowledge in this case since I could use my new immortality to hunt evil for all time.

The way I'm seeing this curse is as an addiction.    The Monk has to be constantly learning, reading, and researching to quell his hunger for knowledge.   Which leads to other questions:

A death curse is obviously done quickly, so how can a wizard be sure that it's effective?
Is it vocalized?  How does the cursed become aware of the full extent of the spell?