Jim's stand on fic?

[DragonFire]

Also don't Mary Sue's get laid....a lot?

I mean, you have to have some sort of sick, masochistic tendencies to purposely make your Mary Sue go without.....

Well some that irrestibly hot, and awesome and cool clearly has a lot of options!!

[Infamous as Elle!]

Technically the audience is being tortured too.  Since in literary terms, you're more involved with the first person narration.  So we're all waiting for Harry to get some nookie so we can live vicariously through that.

Technically, doesn't that make us as bad as Bob?

Wow, I feel so dirty now.

[Kali]

The definitive Mary Sue = Twilight

Mind you, Anita Blake runs a close second.

[Matrix Refugee (formerly Morraeon)]

The definitive Mary Sue = Twilight

Mind you, Anita Blake runs a close second.

Agreed on Twilight. I'd go so far as to classify Bella as an Angsty Sue, going by the Mary Sue Classification system: http://mhari.fateback.com/sues.html

I'd put Merry Gentry ahead of Anita Blake, since she didn't really start out as a Mary Sue, but that's just me saying it.

[Infamous as Elle!]

Twilight is OH YEAH Mary Sue....dead on.  And it's sickening how well Mary Sue fiction can do.  I could never put myself in Bella's place though.  There is nothing in me that thinks throwing aside my individuality for a man is "romantic".

Bleck!

Anita Blake....eh, that's more nookie with some plot thrown in.  It's a guilty pleasure!   

[DragonFire]

I'd put Merry Gentry ahead of Anita Blake, since she didn't really start out as a Mary Sue, but that's just me saying it.

Anita always had Mary Sue elements...notice in the first book how she's always better and more right than everyone??

It's just the plot was enough and the writing was good enough to overcome the Mary Sueish elements.....however, as it went on, the plot changed....and the Mary Sue qualities shined through.

Case in point, Anita in book 12 is the same Anita in book 1, she just has kinkier sex.
The character hasn't GROWN.

[Infamous as Elle!]

Anita always had Mary Sue elements...notice in the first book how she's always better and more right than everyone??

It's just the plot was enough and the writing was good enough to overcome the Mary Sueish elements.....however, as it went on, the plot changed....and the Mary Sue qualities shined through.

Case in point, Anita in book 12 is the same Anita in book 1, she just has kinkier sex.
The character hasn't GROWN.

You ever think that sometimes, an author does a book as a sort of holding pattern?  To appease fans and publishers while they figure out where they are going?

[DragonFire]

You ever think that sometimes, an author does a book as a sort of holding pattern?  To appease fans and publishers while they figure out where they are going?

yup, like Robert Jordan's last 3!!

[Infamous as Elle!]

That's sad because ultimately, doesn't it seem like empty calories?  No substance.

Sometimes that's what scares me about becoming a professional writer.  Eventually the demand is greater than the supply and the pressure should be enough to break anyone's creative process.

[DragonFire]

That's sad because ultimately, doesn't it seem like empty calories?  No substance.

Sometimes that's what scares me about becoming a professional writer.  Eventually the demand is greater than the supply and the pressure should be enough to break anyone's creative process.

Yeah....I often wonder how Jim hasn't burned out or broken down, with his workload.

Still....

[Infamous as Elle!]

Yeah....I often wonder how Jim hasn't burned out or broken down, with his workload.

Still....

He's probably holding out on us by privately indulging his Mary Sue needs and stashing them where publishers would never go.

[Kali]

The biggest tip-off that Anita Blake was a Mary Sue was the fact that Anita looks like an idealized version of the author: Tiny, very pale, dark curly/frizzy hair, dark eyes.  Then there's the "can do no wrong" feature, every character who tells Anita she's out of line gets killed off or beaten down.  And let's not forget the whole thing with her ex-husband/Richard and her then-boyfriend-now-husband/Jean-Claude.

Bah.  It's nauseating.

[Infamous as Elle!]

Wait?  They is married?!

Umm....crap, I have NOT been keeping up.

[DragonFire]

The biggest tip-off that Anita Blake was a Mary Sue was the fact that Anita looks like an idealized version of the author: Tiny, very pale, dark curly/frizzy hair, dark eyes.  Then there's the "can do no wrong" feature, every character who tells Anita she's out of line gets killed off or beaten down. 
Bah.  It's nauseating.

Yeah.... just remember, no personal comments about the author.

I personally, get sick of the whole 'Anita can do no wrong and every man wants to nail her' crap.

[Mickey Finn]

I was fine with that when she was pretending to be a good little catholic girl, but when the sex scenes lasted chapters and I had to call a friend and say "Do they ever get out of bed and back to the plot?" the honeymoon was over.